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Old 08-09-2008, 01:16 AM #1
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Default Are we all going to die on Wednesday?

Critics of the Large Hadron Collider - a £4.4 billion machine due to be switched on in ten days time - have lodged a lawsuit at the European Court for Human Rights against the 20 countries, including the UK, that fund the project.

The device is designed to replicate conditions that existed just a fraction of a second after the Big Bang, and its creators hope it will unlock the secrets of how the universe began.

However, opponents fear the machine, which will smash pieces of atoms together at high speed and generate temperatures of more than a trillion degrees centigrade, may create a mini-black hole that could tear the earth apart.

Scientists involved in the project have dismissed the fears as "absurd" and insist that extensive safety assessments on the 17 mile long particle accelerator have demonstrated that it is safe.

The legal battle comes as the European Nuclear Research Centre (CERN), in Geneva, prepares to send the first beam of particles around the machine at the official switch on, on September 10, although it will be several weeks before the first particles are collided together.

Opponents of the project had hoped to obtain an injunction from the European Court of Human Rights that would block the collider from being turned on at all, but the court rejected the application on Friday morning. However, the court will rule on allegations that the experiment violates the right to life under the European Convention of Human Rights.

Professor Otto Rössler, a German chemist at the Eberhard Karls University of Tübingen who is one of the most vocal opponents of the LHC and was one of the scientists who submitted the complaint to the court, said: "CERN itself has admitted that mini black holes could be created when the particles collide, but they don't consider this a risk.

"My own calculations have shown that it is quite plausible that these little black holes survive and will grow exponentially and eat the planet from the inside. I have been calling for CERN to hold a safety conference to prove my conclusions wrong but they have not been willing.

"We submitted this application to the European Court of Human Rights as we do not believe the scientists at CERN are taking all the precautions they should be in order to protect human life."

Professor Rössler claims that, in the worst case scenario, the earth could be sucked inside out within four years of a mini black hole forming.

The case he and his colleagues have put before the European Court of Human Rights argues that the Large Hadron Collider violates the right to life and right to private family life under the European Convention of Human Rights

It sets out a series of arguments that suggest the collider could produce mini black holes that would permanently come into existence and grow uncontrollably.

But a safety report published earlier this year by experts at CERN and reviewed by a group of external scientists gave the Large Hadron Collider the all clear. It concluded that there was little theoretical chance of the collider producing mini black holes that would be capable of posing a danger to the earth.

It stated that nature routinely produces higher energy collisions on the earth than will be possible in the collider, when cosmic rays hit the planet

But the CERN facility is already facing a second lawsuit filed by environmentalists in Hawaii who are seeking a court order that would force the US government to intervene and delay the start up of the collider. That case is due to be heard on Tuesday.

Large particle colliders have been used by scientists to smash atoms and pieces of atoms together for more than thirty years without causing any noticeable harm to the planet.

This latest machine, however, has attracted such attention because it is the largest and most powerful ever constructed. Built 300ft beneath the French Swiss border, it will fire atomic particles around its 17 mile circumference, 11,245 times every second before smashing them headlong into each other.

The result will, for a split second, replicate the conditions that existed in the moments immediately after the birth of the universe, known as the Big Bang. In a space a billion times smaller than a speck of dust, the collisions will create temperatures 100,000 times hotter than the centre of the sun.

Among the debris thrown off by these collisions, scientists hope they will find the elusive Higgs-Boson, which is thought to be responsible for giving every other particle its mass, or weight.

But scientists admit it could be years before they start producing any meaningful results due to the challenges involved in detecting such tiny and fleeting particles.

James Gillies, spokesman for CERN, insisted that despite the huge amounts of energy the Large Hadron Collider will produce, it posed no risk to the safety of the planet.

He said: "The case before the European Court of Human Rights contains the same arguments that we have seen before and we have answered these in extensive safety reports.

The Large Hadron Collider will not be producing anything that does not already happen routinely in nature due to cosmic rays. If they were dangerous we would know about it already.

"We are now concentrating on firing the first beams around the collider and then on fine tuning it until we can get collisions, when the science will start."

A spokesman for the European Court of Human Rights confirmed the lawsuit had been lodged and the petition to obtain an emergency injunction against CERN was rejected. She said: "There will therefore be no bar to CERN carrying out these experiments but the applicants can continue with this case here at the ECHR."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...the-world.html
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Old 08-09-2008, 01:23 AM #2
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It's been blown out of proportion way too much this.
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Old 08-09-2008, 01:23 AM #3
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What the hell? I'm too lazy to read it all. Is it about someone trying to replicate the Big Bang...on Wednesday?
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Old 08-09-2008, 01:26 AM #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rory
What the hell? I'm too lazy to read it all. Is it about someone trying to replicate the Big Bang...on Wednesday?
Right to sum it up.

Scientist built this machine 300 meters or something underground that, they want to replicate conditions after the big bang by smashing atoms together at a very fast speed.
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Old 08-09-2008, 01:27 AM #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Xander
Quote:
Originally posted by Rory
What the hell? I'm too lazy to read it all. Is it about someone trying to replicate the Big Bang...on Wednesday?
Right to sum it up.

Scientist built this machine 300 meters or something underground, they want to replicate conditions after the big bang by smashing atoms together at a very fast speed.
Ah thanks. My brain is knackered from writing 7 history essays, which are due tomorrow, that I've been procrastinating all month.
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Old 08-09-2008, 01:28 AM #6
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If we do

Let make these 3 days count
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Old 08-09-2008, 01:30 AM #7
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It wouldn't of had the go ahead if it were considered unsafe, goverments from other countries would of stepped in, the thing is though on Wednesday its gets turned on to get the beams circulating around the tunnel at a gentle speed, they start colliding atoms on 24th October. (So I have read)
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Old 08-09-2008, 01:33 AM #8
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I don't think it should be done, If we was meant to know how everything came to be then we'd know. This sounds kinda risky, how many safety tests can you run on a machine like that?
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Old 08-09-2008, 01:34 AM #9
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if so ive got some serious looting to do
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Old 08-09-2008, 01:38 AM #10
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Right, A interview with someone working at the CERN lab. Talks about the potential risks and the safety.
For all of you who are a little concerned.

(From BBC News)
Quote:
Q: Safety Concerns
Cern have been confident in the prediction that there are no major risks associated with the LHC's operation. How robust is this prediction? In particular, how reliant is it upon unsupported theoretical assumptions? (Chris)
Okay, so how do we know this thing won't make planet Earth implode then? (Stephen)

A: Let me answer all of these at once.
The LHC has absolutely no chance of destroying anything bigger than a few protons, let alone the Earth. This is not based on theoretical assumptions.
It is, of course, essential that all scientific research at the frontiers of knowledge, from genetics to particle physics, is subjected to the most rigorous scrutiny to ensure that our voyages into the unknown do not result in unforeseen, perhaps dangerous outcomes.
Cern, and indeed all research establishments, do this routinely and to the satisfaction of their host governments. In the case of the LHC, a report in plain English is available here:
http://public.web.cern.ch/public/en/LHC/Safety-en.html
For the record, the LHC collides particles together at energies far below those naturally occurring in many places in the Universe, including the upper atmosphere of our planet every second of every day.
If the LHC can produce micro black holes, for example, then nature is doing it right now by smashing ultra-high energy cosmic ray particles into the Earth directly above our heads with no discernable consequences.
The overwhelmingly most likely explanation for our continued existence in the face of this potentially prolific production of black holes is that they aren't produced at all because there are either no extra dimensions in the Universe, or they aren't set up right for us to see them.
If black holes are being produced, then next on the list of explanations for our continued existence is the broad theoretical consensus that sub-atomic black holes should fizzle back into the Universe very quickly, billionths of a second after they are created in a little flash of particles via a process known as Hawking radiation.
In other words, they evaporate away very quickly indeed. This process, which is perhaps Steven Hawking's greatest contribution to theoretical physics, is on significantly firmer theoretical ground than the extra dimensions theories required to create the little black holes in the first place.
Even if Hawking is wrong, and therefore much of our understanding of modern physics is also wrong, the little black holes would be so tiny that they would rarely come close enough to a particle of matter in the Earth to eat it and grow.
And even if you don't buy any of this, then you can still relax in the knowledge that we have no evidence anywhere in the Universe of a little black hole eating anything - not just Earth but the Sun and planets and every star we can see in the sky, including the immensely dense neutron stars and white dwarfs, remnants of ancient Suns that populate the sky in their millions and which because of their density would make great black hole food.
So - the only theoretical bit is in the proposition that you can make little black holes in the first place. From then on, observation tells us that these things either (a) don't exist - the most likely explanation; or (b) exist, but do not eat neutron stars and are therefore harmless, probably because they evaporate away very quickly indeed!
I am in fact immensely irritated by the conspiracy theorists who spread this nonsense around and try to scare people. This non-story is symptomatic of a larger mistrust in science, particularly in the US, which includes intelligent design amongst other things.
The only serious issue is why so many people who don't have the time or inclination to discover for themselves why this stuff is total crap have to be exposed to the opinions of these half-wits. (BC)
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Old 08-09-2008, 07:07 AM #11
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If there was any major risk, this experiment wouldn't of been given the go ahead.
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Old 08-09-2008, 07:08 AM #12
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The governments would have told us anyway if it had any risks.

And if I die on Wednesday, I need an ace outfit to die in, I need to go shopping lol
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Old 08-09-2008, 07:51 AM #13
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We are hit every year by more energetic particles than those produced by the LHC.

Even if a micro black hole did form, it would evaporate instantly due to Hawking radiation.
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Old 08-09-2008, 07:53 AM #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by markofthebeast
if so ive got some serious looting to do
Lmfao.

Cheerful article aint it
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Old 08-09-2008, 07:56 AM #15
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Old 08-09-2008, 09:43 AM #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Captain.Remy
The governments would have told us anyway if it had any risks.

And if I die on Wednesday, I need an ace outfit to die in, I need to go shopping lol
The government will tell you things? Dont make me laugh, with all the research I have been doing on government and them lying you would be shocked how much they keep from us!
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Old 08-09-2008, 02:23 PM #17
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At least if we do all die it'd happen before we knew about it
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Old 08-09-2008, 05:15 PM #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Captain.Remy
The governments would have told us anyway if it had any risks.

And if I die on Wednesday, I need an ace outfit to die in, I need to go shopping lol
The government will tell you things? Dont make me laugh, with all the research I have been doing on government and them lying you would be shocked how much they keep from us!
I know they don't tell us everything but if that experiment was a serious danger to the societies, they would have told us or an international organization. We know governments are bad, but not that bad to take huge risks.
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Old 08-09-2008, 05:26 PM #19
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The government would step in if serious harm could be caused.
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Old 08-09-2008, 05:27 PM #20
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so basicly the same thread i posted last week ?
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Old 08-09-2008, 06:38 PM #21
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Oh, blah blah blah.
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Old 08-09-2008, 06:51 PM #22
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But the first collision doesn't happen until a few weeks time, so even if we were to die we've still got a few weeks yet. Wohay.
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Old 08-09-2008, 08:58 PM #23
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It all sounds vaguely like scaremongering à la Millennium Bug, SARS, bird flu’ or weapons of mass destruction.

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Old 08-09-2008, 09:00 PM #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lauren
But the first collision doesn't happen until a few weeks time, so even if we were to die we've still got a few weeks yet. Wohay.
Oh good, that gives me time to finish the decorating before the destruction of the Universe commences.

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Old 08-09-2008, 09:11 PM #25
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No. But until 2 days i ago like a plonker i thought it was real. We were discussing this in our science.

This was blown out of proportion BIG TIME!! My science teacher said, "The french government were in talk about doing this experiment for ages. For them to do it they need to they need to get permission from every country." Which i said was stupid anyway, why even plan it! He also said "They would NEVER do it unless they were 1000% sure that i would not affect anyone on earth. It's some stupid rumor some french university students started.. Apparently"

That might not be true. I'm not saying it is. But it sounds more.. reliable then 'The Worlds Coming To An End!!'

lol
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