[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Suggesting that any discussion of Dave Chappelle isn't currently going to involve trans issues is just unrealistic. It would involve being deliberately avoidant of known, recent, relevant (threats of violence made) events... I don't know why you'd be so keen to live in a crafted/sanitised reality for the sake of comfort. You can't play dumb and say "Chappelle and trans rights? Absolutely no link, I have no idea what you mean " and expect that to be taken seriously. If JK Rowling was attacked during a book reading what would your immediate suspicion be? Honestly? There's a slim chance it might be unrelated but it's just not pragmatically likely in the slightest.

To be clear though it's not about "blaming trans people" - I'd no more blame trans people for an attack like this than I'd blame Muslims for a terrorist incident. So long as it isn't being "cheered on" or encouraged it's no one's responsibility but the individual who did it (who I doubt is trans, and if they do indeed claim to be "an ally", they're a terrible one).

And how likely is it that it isn't being cheered on or encouraged given the reactions to Rowling and others?

Has there been any discouragement of this kind of behaviour? I may have missed it, if you know of any I'd be happy to read it.

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

I thought you were about discussion?

When you have to bury yourself in the weeds like this to try and project superiority, then it's equal parts embarrassing and revealing my guy. There's no need to continue any of this, and yet you will still continue to do it. You're an irrelevance to me, but I look forward to you quoting my posts over and over with the same nonsense.

Everything I said about the way you do things, becomes ever more true with every post.

In fact, I'll make this super easy by employing the ignore function, so I don't even have to read anymore of the weirdness.

You could have just hit the button and said nothing about trying to look superior.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah, Will Smith not being thrown out (at the very least) straight away was bizarre

Of course, he was seen as untouchable and that's messed up. Where was security? They have a duty of care to everyone.
Is it any wonder that we are seeing others being attacked? If will got up and smacked somebody without consequence then others will want a go to air their grievances.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

You can just say that you find it difficult to engage openly with the topic, we all have intellectual blind spots.

Is this a dog whistle? ...I'd say it very much is.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Of course, he was seen as untouchable and that's messed up. Where was security? They have a duty of care to everyone.
Is it any wonder that we are seeing others being attacked? If will got up and smacked somebody without consequence then others will want a go to air their grievances.

On the Edge of the stage
held back by the Producers,
as it got, the Show talked about
across the World.

A new thing for them.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by arista

On the Edge of the stage
held back by the Producers,
as it got, the Show talked about
across the World.

A new thing for them.

Held back? There should have been no time to be held back... this was not a publicity stunt it was an assault.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Note the difference in reactions.. these guys were restrained by force by many people for their actions. Will Smith got an award... End the cult of celebrity.

good point

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Is this a dog whistle? ...I'd say it very much is.

To be fair, blind spots was just using my words. However, what was conveniently left out, is that I constantly make reference to my own blind spots, to ensure that it isn't about being dismissive or superior, as well as saying words along the lines of "I'm not saying that to be dismissive or using it as an attack."

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Held back? There should have been no time to be held back... this was not a publicity stunt it was an assault.

It was Live
the producers were watching the Tweets
they used it as a Talking point
which increased the total watching



I recorded it on SkyMoviesHD
and watched it UnCut

it was great to hear the F. word live

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

I thought you were about discussion?

When you have to bury yourself in the weeds like this to try and project superiority, then it's equal parts embarrassing and revealing my guy. There's no need to continue any of this, and yet you will still continue to do it. You're an irrelevance to me, but I look forward to you quoting my posts over and over with the same nonsense.

Everything I said about the way you do things, becomes ever more true with every post.

In fact, I'll make this super easy by employing the ignore function, so I don't even have to read anymore of the weirdness.

I've never given any indication of being unwilling to discuss or not open to discussing anything... in fact, I'd argue that my willingness to examine a side of a particular issue that makes Slim (I won't address this to Slim himself as he apparently isn't reading it) uneasy has been the crux of our entire issue.

For what it's worth, what's being denigrated as "weirdness" here is a bit of gentle baiting and dog-whistling to confirm a suspicion about a strongly held belief or allegiance that isn't initially being stated outright, but is clearly affecting the parameters of the discussion, is a perfectly valid (and basic) debate strategy. It was quite effective here and a claimed pseudo-neutral stance was revealed to not be anything of the sort very quickly.

As ever - I don't "feel superior" but I won't apologise for debating or pursuing something that's piqued my interest in a discussion, I'm not "embarrassed", and as for the need to continue, I don't do it for Slim or anyone else's attention or interest or to be relevant to anyone so that's not really anyone else's call.

I got plenty out of this tête-à-tête .

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

To be fair, blind spots was just using my words. However, what was conveniently left out, is that I constantly make reference to my own blind spots, to ensure that it isn't about being dismissive or superior, as well as saying words along the lines of "I'm not saying that to be dismissive or using it as an attack."

It falls apart like wet tissue paper with minimal pressure though doesn't it?

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Note the difference in reactions.. these guys were restrained by force by many people for their actions. Will Smith got an award... End the cult of celebrity.

I agree with that, from both angles really. You'd obviously never see someone high-profile being jumped by security as severely as this. Security was rather heavy-handed with the Chappelle show, and ludicrously absent with Smith/Rock. Of course as it's not an "open to the public" event they type of security at the Oscars will be different (they're expecting external threats trying to get IN, not the celebs themselves booting off) so I think him getting on the stage and managing to hit Rock is understandable... no one knew wtf was happening. BUT... the response afterwards was a joke. Once it had happened, he should have been removed immediately, by force if necessary (as he apparently "refused").