[arista]

Labour is Angry at this.



But its Logical.
And must be done


http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...ion-revolution


http://news.sky.com/story/1338424/sc...ses-new-powers


debated Live on Ch4HD News

[Crimson Dynamo]

Milliband has had a nightmare and must be replaced asap

[arista]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Milliband has had a nightmare and must be replaced asap

Ed is not liked

[joeysteele]

I don't agree, they need to devolve powers to regions in England where elected representatives elected for that region deal with those transferred powers.

Any MP elected from any Country in the UK to the Westminster parliament should, and in my view must, be able to vote on 'all' that is presented to that Parliament.
No 2 tier system of MPs for me,that for me would be far worse than what we have now.

It is bad enough that for a lot of the time for decades,that Scotland and Wales have had policy dictated to them from mainly English MPs.
The last thing we need now is the whole of England,top to bottom being dictated to as to policy by in the main the far South of England's MP's only.
Again, no thank you.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I don't agree, they need to devolve powers to regions in England where elected representatives elected for that region deal with those transferred powers.

Any MP elected from any Country in the UK to the Westminster parliament should, and in my view must, be able to vote on 'all' that is presented to that Parliament.
No 2 tier system of MPs for me,that for me would be far worse than what we have now.

It is bad enough that for a lot of the time for decades,that Scotland and Wales have had policy dictated to them from mainly English MPs.
The last thing we need now is the whole of England,top to bottom being dictated to as to policy by in the main the far South of England's MP's only.
Again, no thank you.

Totally! But you know this will be spun as 'let's get shot of the anti establishment Scottish MPs!'.... how will making these (representatives of part of the UK let's not forget) disenfranchised benefit anyone in England?

[arista]

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Totally! But you know this will be spun as 'let's get shot of the anti establishment Scottish MPs!'.... how will making these (representatives of part of the UK let's not forget) disenfranchised benefit anyone in England?

It will look really hypocritical if there has been a large efffort to ensure Scotland remained in the United Kingdom then a line was taken to strip MPs from Scotland legitimately elected to Westminster of voting rights.
Wonder where that will leave the whips.

What is needed are new elected authorities in the regions of England replacing Councils.
Given much more and extra devolved powers and none of this segregation at the full Westminster parliament to satisfy power mad MPs from the far South of England only.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

It will look really hypocritical if there has been a large efffort to ensure Scotland remained in the United Kingdom then a line was taken to strip MPs from Scotland legitimately elected to Westminster of voting rights.
Wonder where that will leave the whips.

What is needed are new elected authorities in the regions of England replacing Councils.
Given much more and extra devolved powers and none of this segregation at the full Westminster parliament to satisfy power mad MPs from the far South of England only.

Yes I think we need to get behind Scotland and show Westminster that they can't rest on their laurels, awarding themselves huge rises and selling our nationalised organisations!

[MTVN]

Well its not stopping them voting in Westminster altogether, its merely an attempt to solve the West Lothian questions of how Scottish MPs are able to vote on matters which exclusively concern England. It would be very sensible to restrict such matters to only English MPs and I hope they go through with it.

[MTVN]

Slightly off topic but it bugs me how 'Westminster' has become such a dirty word. In Westminster we have the people who have been democratically elected to represent regions all over the UK, just because they do their business in London they're suddenly some sort of elitist out of touch toff clique? It's crazy how the anti-politics sentiment in the whole of the UK has evolved into an inherent scepticism of our whole democracy and national parliament. Wish everyone would stop being so paranoid and cynical and support their democratic process.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Slightly off topic but it bugs me how 'Westminster' has become such a dirty word. In Westminster we have the people who have been democratically elected to represent regions all over the UK, just because they do their business in London they're suddenly some sort of elitist out of touch toff clique? It's crazy how the anti-politics sentiment in the whole of the UK has evolved into an inherent scepticism of our whole democracy and national parliament. Wish everyone would stop being so paranoid and cynical and support their democratic process.

The same people from the same schools have been governing this country from the beginning, through subsequent years to the modern day. It's not paranoid to suggest that there is an element of elitism/cronyism involved to some degree, you would have to be blinkered to British political history to not see that.
Therefore in realistic terms how democratic is our election process, the onus during in particular conservative governments is a laizzez-faire approach to the concept of 'society' and the promotion of capitalism.
In recent years that has involved the deconstruction of many many democratically founded nationalised bodies into private ownership destabalising infrastructure within the UK.
The repetition of ideological policy across many generations makes it difficult to not be cynical.
There is nothing at all wrong with skepticism... it's not a dirty word either but healthy to have an open and inquiring mind, to recognise doublespeak and rhetoric when it's served in differing guises or in print.

[joeysteele]

They need to remove certain legislation from Westminster as to English matters and do what they have done with Scotland and Wales and devolve that power,not to an English assembly but to the regions,all of whom have different needs across the whole Country.

The Westminster parliament is and has to remain fully, 'the UK Parliament',and Govts. elected to that Parliament should not have any voting restrictions put on it by some daft ruling that some of its MPs cannot vote on certain issues.

Were the Conservatives still picking up 20+ seats from Scotland as they were a few decades ago, this would not even be on the agenda.
Devolving powers to the regions is the only way to go on this in my view.

You cannot have any govt. elected from the whole of the UK then tie its hands behind its back with restrictions on how their elected MPs may vote in the 'whole UK parliament'.
It is a recipe for even further chaos.
Also it is because Westminster has got so much wrong, and done so much wrong over the last few decades such as to MPs expenses, scandals and breaking promises to the electorate that has taken respect away from Politicians.

This move suggested by power mad Conservative MPs,is something else that demonstrates to me why Westminster needs a massive clearout rather than just consolidating these 'mini' Westminster elements within Westminster itself,who want to dictate to everyone else.

The hypocrisy of the Conservative party as to this too is nauseating, had they fallen short by only say 2 or 3 seats in the 2010 election, then they would have likely done a deal with the DUP in Northern Ireland to shore up their governing.
Excluding probably all other mainland UK parties from the process.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

They need to remove certain legislation from Westminster as to English matters and do what they have done with Scotland and Wales and devolve that power,not to an English assembly but to the regions,all of whom have different needs across the whole Country.

The Westminster parliament is and has to remain fully, 'the UK Parliament',and Govts. elected to that Parliament should not have any voting restrictions put on it by some daft ruling that some of its MPs cannot vote on certain issues.

Were the Conservatives still picking up 20+ seats from Scotland as they were a few decades ago, this would not even be on the agenda.
Devolving powers to the regions is the only way to go on this in my view.

You cannot have any govt. elected from the whole of the UK then tie its hands behind its back with restrictions on how their elected MPs may vote in the 'whole UK parliament'.
It is a recipe for even further chaos.
Also it is because Westminster has got so much wrong, and done so much wrong over the last few decades such as to MPs expenses, scandals and breaking promises to the electorate that has taken respect away from Politicians.

This move suggested by power mad Conservative MPs,is something else that demonstrates to me why Westminster needs a massive clearout rather than just consolidating these 'mini' Westminster elements within Westminster itself,who want to dictate to everyone else.

The hypocrisy of the Conservative party as to this too is nauseating, had they fallen short by only say 2 or 3 seats in the 2010 election, then they would have likely done a deal with the DUP in Northern Ireland to shore up their governing.
Excluding probably all other mainland UK parties from the process.

I agree with this in particular Joey, politicians are to be held in high regard as figureheads of our communities and work for the public on issues of importance to the UK as a WHOLE.. So when it's found that there are lies, fraud and subterfuge it rocks public confidence in the establishment, that is what we are seeing increasingly now.
They no longer work for us but are all shareholders in 'brand Britain', society has been reduced to disposable 0hr contract lab rats.

[JoshBB]

This is one of multiple anti-Labour threads you've made, do you actually have an issue with them not liking the policy or are you just digging to find reasons to slate them?

[arista]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

This is one of multiple anti-Labour threads you've made, do you actually have an issue with them not liking the policy or are you just digging to find reasons to slate them?

This a Major News Story
with or without my views.


Talk on the Topic
not me.

[Tregard]

Scotland should've got out while they could, any additional power they were offered is unlikely to ever show up.

[joeysteele]

The point is the Conservative party cannot and should not be allowed to hijack the promise the PM made with the other 2 main party leaders as to 'if Scotland voted no' more powers would be transferred to Scotland.

He made no mention of linking that to reform of the English question too, that is another issue for another day.
Or does his word mean nothing,just as Nick Clegg's didn't as to tuition fees.

This PM is a disgrace if he insists on this being linked to a 'quick' and badly thought through policy as to the English issue.
Ed Miliband is right to both condemn this and even walk away from it if this PM sets out to move the goalposts and add things to his promise that were never said when they made the promise.
Ed Miliband should then promise that the first action of a Labour Govt. after May 2015, will bring in the promise of the new powers to Scotland and then separately look at the English issue with more time and longer debate to get that right.

For me, were this PM and the Conservative party hijack this and go down this road, that will be, in my view, a gross misleading of the Scottish Nation and pure deceit.
A really big and disgraceful abuse of power.

He should work with the 2 other main party leaders to ensure the new powers promised to Scotland get set up and through, no matter what may happen at the general election.

The English issue needs far more debate and consideration and should also only go ahead with the agreement of all the main party leaders too.
I watch this with great interest.

Is this really going to be a time where we are going to see a UK Prime Minister do a massive turnaround as to a promise made to a whole Country in order to 'sort of bribe' them to vote a certain way in a referendum.
If that is so, then the sooner this 'dangerous for the UK' PM is turfed out of office the better for all.

Two separate issues, the Scottish powers promise and then the English issue,no real debate now needed as to the first of those,just get it done in accordance with the promise made and then followed by a great deal of consultation and debate required for the second.

[Kizzy]

Yes roll on next year to rid us of this infection of parasites in government sucking the life force from the country, as to any powers there will be none... A lot of bluster and hot air, saying we'll do this, this and this and deliver nothing! all the time waiting for the dust to settle.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Yes roll on next year to rid us of this infection of parasites in government sucking the life force from the country, as to any powers there will be none... A lot of bluster and hot air, saying we'll do this, this and this and deliver nothing! all the time waiting for the dust to settle.

I tell you what I now think, they are aptly named 'CON'servatives,if he tries to do this he and his party have conned the Scottish voters in this referendum and I would say,in fact everyone else in the UK too.

I really hope for once the media really go to town on him and his party for this.
My contempt for them just gets worse with almost all they do now.

[Kizzy]

Same, it astounds me how they get away with what they do, talk about teflon dave! :/

[arista]

Originally Posted by Tregard

Scotland should've got out while they could, any additional power they were offered is unlikely to ever show up.

No Brown rushed
in Emergency DevoMax
with all 3 leaders signing a new deal
of course its a mess.

But the World is watching

[arista]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I tell you what I now think, they are aptly named 'CON'servatives,if he tries to do this he and his party have conned the Scottish voters in this referendum and I would say,in fact everyone else in the UK too.

I really hope for once the media really go to town on him and his party for this.
My contempt for them just gets worse with almost all they do now.

No Joey
many Labour MP's back the PM


Its just Worried Ed
who is in another panic.



But look at Scottish Labour
loads jumped to the SNP.

[Kizzy]

Back the PM in the sense that they were in the NO camp, not that they agree with his maniacal proposals for Scottish MPs...

[MTVN]

Yes many Labour MPs do back, most of England does. I don't know if people are misunderstanding but the main argument is purely that Scottish MPs should not vote on issues which exclusively concern England, not ban them altogether

The whole issue was coined by a Labour MP and a Scottish one at that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Lothian_question

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Back the PM in the sense that they were in the NO camp, not that they agree with his maniacal proposals for Scottish MPs...

No backing the PM
on his views on Power in England