[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

people should erect a giant pyre in the middle of Trafalgar Square and burn a giant effigy of the orange twat
then maybe, just maybe, he gets the message and stops lying about Britain to illustrate his idiotic ideas about health service, racial integration and so forth

I can think of many people much more deserving of such an act than Trump, pointless as it is. Maybe we should leave the burning of effigies and the like - together with the implied threats - to the likes of ISIS and their supporters as that kind of moronic act is much more up their street and I see no reason for the West to lower themselves to their level.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I can think of many people much more deserving of such an act than Trump, pointless as it is. Maybe we should leave the burning of effigies and the like - together with the implied threats - to the likes of ISIS and their supporters as that kind of moronic act is much more up their street and I see no reason for the West to lower themselves to their level.

Here,here brillo.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I can think of many people much more deserving of such an act than Trump, pointless as it is. Maybe we should leave the burning of effigies and the like - together with the implied threats - to the likes of ISIS and their supporters as that kind of moronic act is much more up their street and I see no reason for the West to lower themselves to their level.

Nobody is planning on parading ISIS around our country as an ally, arm in arm with our nations leaders.
I mean, yes ISIS is worse than Trump. You are missing the point though.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I can think of many people much more deserving of such an act than Trump, pointless as it is. Maybe we should leave the burning of effigies and the like - together with the implied threats - to the likes of ISIS and their supporters as that kind of moronic act is much more up their street and I see no reason for the West to lower themselves to their level.

I nominate John Venables - but don't bother with any effigy, just burn the real thing.

Or if we are strictly talking 'Political Figures only, how about Dianne Abbott and Jeremy Corbyn?

[Withano]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I nominate John Venables - but don't bother with any effigy, just burn the real thing.

Or if we are strictly talking 'Political Figures only, how about Dianne Abbott and Jeremy Corbyn?

...so your previous outrage at Jones was? Him nominating the wrong person? Cos actually you and him are sharing the exact same thought process. Some might call that hypocritical idk.

[bots]

like him or hate him, trump is a democratically elected president. We got annoyed when outside influences got involved in the brexit vote, the only ones that can change things are the american people, and outside protests are just going to strengthen their resolve to keep him

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Withano

...so your previous outrage at Jones was? Him nominating the wrong person? Cos actually you and him are sharing the exact same thought process. Some might call that hypocritical idk.

WHY do you persistently MISINTERPRET and MISREPRESENT what I have written?

Is it because - by your own admission - you refuse to READ my posts because of my 'random capitalisation' and therefore are totally CLUELESS about what I have ACTUALLY said?

In any event, I CHALLENGE you to reproduce here ANY example of my 'Previous outrage' at Jones.

Go on, QUOTE me - you have NEVER accepted similar challenges from me before when you have misrepresented what I have said.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

like him or hate him, trump is a democratically elected president. We got annoyed when outside influences got involved in the brexit vote, the only ones that can change things are the american people, and outside protests are just going to strengthen their resolve to keep him

Well said BOTS.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I nominate John Venables - but don't bother with any effigy, just burn the real thing.

Or if we are strictly talking 'Political Figures only, how about Dianne Abbott and Jeremy Corbyn?

She is such a div isn't she Kirk,

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

like him or hate him, trump is a democratically elected president. We got annoyed when outside influences got involved in the brexit vote, the only ones that can change things are the american people, and outside protests are just going to strengthen their resolve to keep him

Well yes but he's the democratically elected president of The United States, by US citizens, and any protest about him coming to the UK / interacting with the UK is surely a protest against him having any political influence over the UK... Where he is not an elected anything.

I mean I would understand your point if there was a planeload of British folks heading to Washington to stage an anti-Trump demonstration... But that's not what's happening. No one is protesting against the democratically elected Trump doing whatever it is he does in his own country... Only when he boards a plane and brings his rhetoric to nations where he is not president?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Well yes but he's the democratically elected president of The United States, by US citizens, and any protest about him coming to the UK / interacting with the UK is surely a protest against him having any political influence over the UK... Where he is not an elected anything.

I mean I would understand your point if there was a planeload of British folks heading to Washington to stage an anti-Trump demonstration... But that's not what's happening. No one is protesting against the democratically elected Trump doing whatever it is he does in his own country... Only when he boards a plane and brings his rhetoric to nations where he is not president?

He was invited by our government as the US President. What political influence exactly is he trying to impose on the Brits? Do some of the British Public now think they can dictate what high ranking Western politicians the government can invite to the UK!

I think some, like Jones, are getting a bit too big for their boots. He isn’t a mass murderer! People who vocalise what a fool the man is sure act as though they see him as a considerable threat.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I can think of many people much more deserving of such an act than Trump, pointless as it is. Maybe we should leave the burning of effigies and the like - together with the implied threats - to the likes of ISIS and their supporters as that kind of moronic act is much more up their street and I see no reason for the West to lower themselves to their level.

Get of your high horse about the West, Brillo. No need to bring ISIS into it.
Burning effigies is an old British tradition. The only innovation I suggested was time and place.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...s-8914042.html

A gigantic effigy of the disgraced film producer Harvey Weinstein will be burned at a Bonfire Night celebration in Kent this weekend. The Edenbridge Bonfire Society, which chooses a celebrity Guy to go alongside the traditional effigy of failed plotter Guy Fawkes every year

A 30-ft effigy of former apprentice star Katie Hopkins was burned at Edenbridge Bonfire celebrations last Saturday. Festival organsisers described her as an “easy choice” due to her “silly remarks” this year. Katie joins a group that includes Bill Clinton, Osama Bin Laden and Barack Obama, all of whom have had effigies burned as part of traditional bonfire celebrations in Kent and Sussex.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Get of your high horse about the West, Brillo. No need to bring ISIS into it.
Burning effigies is an old British tradition. The only innovation I suggested was time and place.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...s-8914042.html

And you support that! I find that total hypocricy of people taking the moral high ground one minute then acting like bullies and dictators the next. Total hypocrites.

Burning effigies is a pretty aggressive, violent and primitive act and hardly appropriate for a gobby tv printer/columnist and sexual pest/rapist of a film producer. As I said there are far worse offenders we could be protesting about, especially in such a infantile way - it smacks of pack-mentality and revenge - the opposite of what such people preach. A good case of do as I say - not what I do!

[Jack_]

I've met Owen twice and he was nothing but lovely, approachable and down to earth. Some of the vitriol in this thread is absurd.

What's more is (and I'm really getting tired of having to explain this, I lose brain cells every time I do) protesting cannot be anti-democratic, because the act of protest is quite literally democracy in action. There are no two ways about this. It doesn't matter whether you think the cause is worthy, or stupid, or pointless, people are entitled to protest about whatever they like - regardless of whether or not it will have any effect. And THAT'S democracy.

[Twosugars]

Brillo, chill. You're getting too worked up in this hot weather.
Burning effigies is a staple of political protests. It will go on whether you like it or not.
I bet Trump's narcissism would be tickled if we told him his effigy would be the biggest and the bestest in the world.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

She is such a div isn't she Kirk,

Though when I recall that it is 30 years that this dangerous, racist buffoon has been in politics and that now she has a top position in the Shadow Cabinet, I'm afraid that the 'jOKE' is firmly upon us Kaz.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

And you support that! I find that total hypocricy of people taking the moral high ground one minute then acting like bullies and dictators the next. Total hypocrites.

Burning effigies is a pretty aggressive, violent and primitive act and hardly appropriate for a gobby tv printer/columnist and sexual pest/rapist of a film producer. As I said there are far worse offenders we could be protesting about, especially in such a infantile way - it smacks of pack-mentality and revenge - the opposite of what such people preach. A good case of do as I say - not what I do!

Good post brillo,no real need to add anything except that burning effigies achieves nothing just proves the childish mindset of some.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Jack_

I've met Owen twice and he was nothing but lovely, approachable and down to earth. Some of the vitriol in this thread is absurd.

What's more is (and I'm really getting tired of having to explain this, I lose brain cells every time I do) protesting cannot be anti-democratic, because the act of protest is quite literally democracy in action. There are no two ways about this. It doesn't matter whether you think the cause is worthy, or stupid, or pointless, people are entitled to protest about whatever they like - regardless of whether or not it will have any effect. And THAT'S democracy.

Fair points Jack, but I have met Nigel Farage numerous times and have also found him always friendly, ultra-civil and polite, sincere, very intelligent and knowledgeable, and very approachable, but such DIRECT personal experience would not sway any anti-Farage members on here to change their dislike of him.

Also, I agree that PEACEFUL protests ARE a part of 'Democracy In Action' but, experience has shown us - time and time again - that these protests are anything but peaceful, and that is down to the Anti-Democratic factions which are behind these protests, the Political Agitators employed by them to take control of the way in which the protests develop ensuing violence and anarchy, and the mindless unknowing sheep who go along with the protests.

I would also argue that Democracy In Action could also be defined as accepting State Protocol.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Brillo, chill. You're getting too worked up in this hot weather.
Burning effigies is a staple of political protests. It will go on whether you like it or not.
I bet Trump's narcissism would be tickled if we told him his effigy would be the biggest and the bestest in the world.

Of course it will go on - the kids have to have their hypocritical fun! If it makes them feel better - which I doubt it will. They will still be filled with hate.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Jack_

I've met Owen twice and he was nothing but lovely, approachable and down to earth. Some of the vitriol in this thread is absurd.

What's more is (and I'm really getting tired of having to explain this, I lose brain cells every time I do) protesting cannot be anti-democratic, because the act of protest is quite literally democracy in action. There are no two ways about this. It doesn't matter whether you think the cause is worthy, or stupid, or pointless, people are entitled to protest about whatever they like - regardless of whether or not it will have any effect. And THAT'S democracy.

Democracy when it suits as the very same people are those desperately trying to overturn a democratic vote by British people to leave the EU. So please don’t preach about democracy whilst one of our oldest acts of democracy - the vote - is being ignored by those who insist on having their way despite the result.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Democracy when it suits as the very same people are those desperately trying to overturn a democratic vote by British people to leave the EU. So please don’t preach about democracy whilst one of our oldest acts of democracy - the vote - is being ignored by those who insist on having their way despite the result.

Great point Brillo.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Democracy when it suits as the very same people are those desperately trying to overturn a democratic vote by British people to leave the EU. So please don’t preach about democracy whilst one of our oldest acts of democracy - the vote - is being ignored by those who insist on having their way despite the result.

To be fair, I don't know of many people who are just saying "ignore the vote", just that there should be a second vote to confirm that it is indeed what the majority of people still want.

I do understand people's reasons for not wanting "vote after vote" (although, I personally don't think one follow up vote on such a huge undertaking as brexit is unwarranted)... HOWEVER... you can't claim that a second vote is undemocratic. If a follow up vote was to suggest that "the will of the people" has dramatically changed, then accepting that would be entirely democratic... arguably, more democratic than dogmatically accepting the outcome of one snapshot vote.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

To be fair, I don't know of many people who are just saying "ignore the vote", just that there should be a second vote to confirm that it is indeed what the majority of people still want.

I do understand people's reasons for not wanting "vote after vote" (although, I personally don't think one follow up vote on such a huge undertaking as brexit is unwarranted)... HOWEVER... you can't claim that a second vote is undemocratic. If a follow up vote was to suggest that "the will of the people" has dramatically changed, then accepting that would be entirely democratic... arguably, more democratic than dogmatically accepting the outcome of one snapshot vote.

A second vote is simply an attempt to overturn the original vote - just dressed up to sideline the real intent whilst insulting the intelligence of those that voted. Come on TS you know it, I know it, everyone knows it! Why the heck should a second vote be any more valid than the first! It’s all bull**** and everyone knows it. Surprised at you TS.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

A second vote is simply an attempt to overturn the original vote - just dressed up to sideline the real intent whilst insulting the intelligence of those that voted. Come on TS you know it, I know it, everyone knows it! Why the heck should a second vote be any more valid than the first! It’s all bull**** and everyone knows it. Surprised at you TS.

The truth is that the Brexit result of the 'Referendum' was a COMPLETE and UTTER surprise to the Tories AND Labour - who BOTH desired for, and expected a huge 'Remain' result.

The Tories paid 'Lip Service' to the Referendum whilst covertly, the powerful Multi-Nationals, Super-Rich, and 'Landed' Classes - ALL who have vested interests in remaining in the EU - poured millions and huge resources into propaganda campaigns full of bollox and lies to brainwash us all into voting Remain.

The Labour Party were and are desperate to remain in the EU - thus the meandering of their leader Corbyn - but at least THEY were more upfront about it.

Since the result, NOTHING has changed, except now - instead of trying to brainwash us into 'staying in' - these lying bastards are using their massive resources and covert connections to instil fear into us all and try to make us doubt that our decision to Brexit was the correct one so that:

a) We will change our vote to 'Remain' if their campaign for a 'Second Referendum' had succeeded.
b) Be more ACCEPTING of ALL the many concessions which May is making to the EU as part of the Brexit 'Deal'.

There is no GENUINE reason for May to procrastinate or offer huge bribes or make other concessions to those crooked bastards in Europe and it is ALL part of the covert strategy to make us believe that we are OUT of the EU when - by the time May has finished with her B.S. concessions - we will be out in name only.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

A second vote is simply an attempt to overturn the original vote - just dressed up to sideline the real intent whilst insulting the intelligence of those that voted. Come on TS you know it, I know it, everyone knows it! Why the heck should a second vote be any more valid than the first! It’s all bull**** and everyone knows it. Surprised at you TS.

That doesn't really matter though. Like I said - I fully understand why many people think that a second vote is unwarranted and unnecessary. I understand the government's inclination to hold their ground and not hold such a vote.

However, if there WAS a vote, so long as it is an open public vote, and the result is a true reflection of how genuine voters have voted... then there's just no way it can be described as "undemocratic".

For example; there was no reason at all for May to hold a General Election last summer. No one wanted it... it was a total waste of time... and the result ended up doing nothing but further muddy the waters. However... that doesn't mean that the result was undemocratic.