[Omah]

Originally: Abuse claims: Report suggests politician wrongly suspected

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20263420

New claims have emerged about the identity of a man alleged to have abused children from care homes in north Wales.

Last Friday on the BBC's Newsnight, former resident Steve Messham claimed he was abused by a senior politician of the Thatcher era, who was not named.

Now the Guardian says the alleged abuse was not carried out by the politician.

It may have been committed by a relative with the same surname, who has since died, it says.

[Kizzy]

I heard on the 10pm news they were now suggesting it is the son of a lord....
Who could that be then?
Not Reece-Mogg, he is to young I think.

[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20267832

Conservative peer Lord McAlpine has said allegations linking him to alleged historical child abuse are "wholly false and seriously defamatory".

The ex-treasurer released a statement after a man claimed he had been abused at a care home in Wrexham, North Wales.

Lord McAlpine said he had visited Wrexham "only once" and that he had been in the company of an agent from Conservative Central Office.

He said he had "never" been to the children's home linked to the claims.

Lord McAlpine's denial comes after Steve Messham claimed he was abused by a senior politician of the Thatcher era, who was not named.

In his statement, Lord McAlpine said: "I have never been to the children's home in Wrexham, nor have I ever visited any children's home, reform school or any other institution of a similar nature.

"I have never stayed in a hotel in or near Wrexham, I did not own a Rolls Royce, have never had a 'Gold card' or 'Harrods card' and never wear aftershave, all of which have been alleged."

So it's not him, then .....

[Omah]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/no...ry-abuse-claim

Lord McAlpine was exonerated by the 1997 Waterhouse inquiry of any involvement in the abuse of children in the north Wales homes but not named because of an order by the retired judge preventing the identification of either victims or alleged abusers. As a result he has been the subject of persistent smears, which resurfaced following the Newsnight allegations about a senior Tory.

But the allegations made by Messham began to unravel after it emerged that he told the Waterhouse inquiry in 1997 that the McAlpine family member he believed to be his abuser was now dead. Lord McAlpine is alive and living in Italy.

The mounting concerns over Messham's allegations will be awkward for David Cameron who has already been accused of over-reacting to claims that senior Conservatives were involved in child abuse by ordering two inquiries into an issue which had already been thoroughly investigated by a public inquiry.

Boys from Bryn Estyn would be taken in "working parties" to the homes of two McAlpine family members in the area – Gerwyn Hall and Marchwiel Hall, both a few miles south-east of Wrexham town centre.

Gerwyn Hall, a grand Georgian house hidden by woodland from the public road, was occupied by Jimmie McAlpine, who died in 1991, six years before the Waterhouse inquiry began. Jimmie's wife, Cynthia, still living at the hall, declined to talk when approached by the Guardian.

Jimmie McAlpine chaired the north of England builders Alfred McAlpine Ltd. His Times obituary recorded: "His other main interest was vintage cars, and he amassed what was at one time the biggest private collection in Britain."

Waterhouse, a retired high court judge, concluded that although Messham was testifying in good faith, and had indeed suffered extensive sexual abuse, his evidence was inconclusive about "any member of the X family". He left open the possibility that Messham might have been wrongly told by a third party that a McAlpine was involved, or have jumped to conclusions.

So, Jimmie did it .....

[arista]

"Lord McAlpine Denies Sex Abuse Allegations"

http://news.sky.com/story/1009185/lo...se-allegations

[Livia]

Witch-hunts R Us.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Livia

Witch-hunts R Us.

It's a shame there was no "witch-hunt" for Savile when he was young - they could have strung him up and spared hundreds of children the degradation of his molestation and violation .....

Turning a blind eye never did anyone any favours .....

[Kizzy]

No it doesn't...
It does not explain why evidence from the previous inquiry was retained and destroyed...
Son, father or brother of a lord it was felt to be 'too close for comfort' obviously.
This soundbite 'witchhunt' now only has to be whispered and ordinarily rational people are willing to overlook 100's pf victim and witness statements...

Once again if anyone is remotely interested in the plight of local authority care home children, past present or future please look at Nick Davis 'Dark Heart, the truth behind hidden britain'
written in the 1990's it warns of the issues faced by children being let down in the system, as well as highlighting failings to safeguard communities.
We are only just now seeing the fruits of these failings have switched from local to national level and on a much grander scale.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Omah

It's a shame there was no "witch-hunt" for Savile when he was young - they could have strung him up and spared hundreds of children the degradation of his molestation and violation .....

Turning a blind eye never did anyone any favours .....

I'll tell you what else does no one any favours, people lapping up every salacious detail of any sex scandal that hits the tabloids and believing every word is true. Especially - as it this case - if it fits in with the agenda that posh people are inherently bad.

I hope that none of the torch-and-pitchfork-carrying hysterics on these threads are ever falsely accused of anything because only then will they realise how dangerous a situation that is. Every time I see another of these threads pop up and read posts from people beating their own breasts with grief and outrage, I remember the baying mob who besieged the house of a paediatrician and daubed her walls with anti-paedophile graffiti.

Incidentally, it is no secret that children in care homes have a rough time. If people put as much effort and energy into doing something about it that they put into talking about it, there probably wouldn't be a problem.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Livia

I'll tell you what else does no one any favours, people lapping up every salacious detail of any sex scandal that hits the tabloids and believing every word is true. Especially - as it this case - if it fits in with the agenda that posh people are inherently bad.

Well, it were a posh person wot dun it .....

I hope that none of the torch-and-pitchfork-carrying hysterics on these threads are ever falsely accused of anything because only then will they realise how dangerous a situation that is. Every time I see another of these threads pop up and read posts from people beating their own breasts with grief and outrage, I remember the baying mob who besieged the house of a paediatrician and daubed her walls with anti-paedophile graffiti.

Well, now you're entering Cameron territory - we have a PM who thinks paedos and gays are synonymous ..... what made him think of that, when nobody else had mentioned a connection .....

Incidentally, it is no secret that children in care homes have a rough time. If people put as much effort and energy into doing something about it that they put into talking about it, there probably wouldn't be a problem.

That would be 40 minutes "talking" time a day for me, then - not much time "doing" time, there .....

Still, better to talk about it than turn a blind eye while someone else brushes under the carpet .....

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

I'll tell you what else does no one any favours, people lapping up every salacious detail of any sex scandal that hits the tabloids and believing every word is true. Especially - as it this case - if it fits in with the agenda that posh people are inherently bad.

I hope that none of the torch-and-pitchfork-carrying hysterics on these threads are ever falsely accused of anything because only then will they realise how dangerous a situation that is. Every time I see another of these threads pop up and read posts from people beating their own breasts with grief and outrage, I remember the baying mob who besieged the house of a paediatrician and daubed her walls with anti-paedophile graffiti.

Incidentally, it is no secret that children in care homes have a rough time. If people put as much effort and energy into doing something about it that they put into talking about it, there probably wouldn't be a problem.

Who has suggested 'posh people' are inherently bad?
What a bizarre generalization...
The point of a forum is to debate issues, to suggest that some forum members are so blinkered they couldn't decipher between a peadophile and a peadiatrician is rather insulting.
Discussing these topics is a way of sharing ideas and information. However, we are not in a position to affect how authorities conduct their affairs regarding social services...
As the general public we elect those who would do that...

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Omah

Well, it were a posh person wot dun it .....

Well, now you're entering Cameron territory - we have a PM who thinks paedos and gays are synonymous ..... what made him think of that, when nobody else had mentioned a connection .....

That would be 40 minutes "talking" time a day for me, then - not much time "doing" time, there .....

Still, better to talk about it than turn a blind eye while someone else brushes under the carpet .....

So little of that makes sense, and so little concerns what I said I really can't be bothered to sort out the muddle... so I'll just say this concerning your "doing time" comment. You elect people to your local authority who make decisions about Children's Services. Forty minutes would be long enough to email your local county or city councillor and enquire who represents you on the Children's Services committee, how your local care homes are run, what's being done to improve facilities etc. I wonder how many people even know the name of their councillor? And yet they receive payment to represent you and your views, whatever party their represent, and whether or not you voted for them.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Livia

So little of that makes sense, and so little concerns what I said I really can't be bothered to sort out the muddle... so I'll just say this concerning your "doing time" comment. You elect people to your local authority who make decisions about Children's Services. Forty minutes would be long enough to email your local county or city councillor and enquire who represents you on the Children's Services committee, how your local care homes are run, what's being done to improve facilities etc. I wonder how many people even know the name of their councillor? And yet they receive payment to represent you and your views, whatever party their represent, and whether or not you voted for them.

I AM a local councillor .....

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Livia

I'll tell you what else does no one any favours, people lapping up every salacious detail of any sex scandal that hits the tabloids and believing every word is true. Especially - as it this case - if it fits in with the agenda that posh people are inherently bad.

I hope that none of the torch-and-pitchfork-carrying hysterics on these threads are ever falsely accused of anything because only then will they realise how dangerous a situation that is. Every time I see another of these threads pop up and read posts from people beating their own breasts with grief and outrage, I remember the baying mob who besieged the house of a paediatrician and daubed her walls with anti-paedophile graffiti.

Incidentally, it is no secret that children in care homes have a rough time. If people put as much effort and energy into doing something about it that they put into talking about it, there probably wouldn't be a problem.

I agree with this.

Investigate the claims if they hold weight and if the person in question is guilty then justly punish them.
These witch hunts will lead nowhere though since nothing good can come from a mob mentality and hysteria.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Omah

I AM a local councillor .....

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Investigate the claims if they hold weight and if the person in question is guilty then justly punish them.

Who's to investigate - do we trust the police, who belong to the same masonic lodges as the parliamentarians .....

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Omah

Who's to investigate - do we trust the police, who belong to the same masonic lodges as the parliamentarians .....

I trust them far more then a bunch of wretched tabloids that seeks only controversy and luring it's easily led audience into a mob mentality. I place faith in cold hard undeniable evidence, I'm not going to condemn someone on the word of a trashy tabloid that's gotten it wrong before.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Omah

I AM a local councillor .....

If that is true, and I have to say I find it next to impossible to believe, then really, it's shameful you know so little about how everything works and you really should be doing more to changing things and encouraging others to, rather than posting the uncorroborated words of a tabloid journalist day after day.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Omah

Who's to investigate - do we trust the police, who belong to the same masonic lodges as the parliamentarians .....

You really are wildly overestimating the influence of the Masons on both the police and on Parliament.

[Kizzy]

Dezzy, the tabloids and the government have been hand in glove for many a year.
Have you heard of the Leveson inquiry?

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by kizzy

Dezzy, the tabloids and the government have been hand in glove for many a year.
Have you heard of the Leveson inquiry?

Doesn't mean you should take everything they say as the gospel truth.

[Kizzy]

How is anyone meant to share information?...
Seriously... news is recorded and reported and we read it.
How else are we supposed to get it?

[Tom4784]

There's more to the news than Tabloids Kizzy.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Doesn't mean you should take everything they say as the gospel truth.

Who does that?...
I certainly don't.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

There's more to the news than Tabloids Kizzy.

I know this thankyou.