[arista]

[ITV has also secured two live programmes to be broadcast
in the second week of June. The first will feature
Mr Cameron and UKIP leader Nigel Farage. 7th June
The second will include other politicians putting
their arguments on both sides of the EU debate. 9th June
The cast list for a BBC debate is as
yet unclear, at this time.]


[David Cameron and Michael Gove
will face questions from journalists
and the public during the programmes.
The hour-long event will be broadcast
on Sky News at 8pm on 2 June,
three weeks before the 23 June referendum.
On 3 June, also at 8pm, Justice Secretary
Michael Gove, who is among those
spearheading the Vote Leave campaign,
will be questioned.]


http://news.sky.com/story/1694517/ca...ws-on-sky-news

[joeysteele]

I am not a supporter of Nigel Farage but I do admire and respect enormously his never changing position as to his view of the EU and leaving the EU.
So I am glad he is being given this high profile lead as to representing the no side, since really without Nigel Farage, there would never have likely been a EU referendum at all.

At least his sincerity and commitment to the issue cannot be justifiably questioned unlike the turncoats of the likes of Boris Johnson who are using the referendum to achieve further ambitions,not really about the EU at all.

Equally Gove is a good choice for the other one.
My guess is the PM will slay all that come against him on the EU anyway and hopefully the voters will see that the PM,on this issue, is guiding them on the right and better path to stay on.

[Johnnyuk123]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I am not a supporter of Nigel Farage but I do admire and respect enormously his never changing position as to his view of the EU and leaving the EU.
So I am glad he is being given this high profile lead as to representing the no side, since really without Nigel Farage, there would never have likely been a EU referendum at all.

At least his sincerity and commitment to the issue cannot be justifiably questioned unlike the turncoats of the likes of Boris Johnson who are using the referendum to achieve further ambitions,not really about the EU at all.

Equally Gove is a good choice for the other one.
My guess is the PM will slay all that come against him on the EU anyway and hopefully the voters will see that the PM,on this issue, is guiding them on the right and better path to stay on.

You recently responded to me saying... I think for myself and make my own mind up on matters. This has to be admired 100%. But also on the other side of the EU argument with you being pro remain it does fly against your own quotes/personal beliefs. Remaining in the EU will mean you will not be allowed to make your own mind up, it will be decided for you from afar by someone un elected and this is what you ( by voting to remain ) is giving up. I hope that you realize this and acknowledge what you are willing to give up to remain within the EU.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123

You recently responded to me saying... I think for myself and make my own mind up on matters. This has to be admired 100%. But also on the other side of the EU argument with you being pro remain it does fly against your own quotes/personal beliefs. Remaining in the EU will mean you will not be allowed to make your own mind up, it will be decided for you from afar by someone un elected and this is what you ( by voting to remain ) is giving up. I hope that you realize this and acknowledge what you are willing to give up to remain within the EU.

I don't see it that way, voters elected govts of both main parties who after being elected signed up to all we have as to the EU and therefore helped form it as it is.

So I see that as the voters sanctioning same by repeatedly electing govts that did so.

Now however no further transfer of powers can take place,or even any new treaty signed without the UK electorate being asked in a referendum.

So I do not feel I am losing anything however I do feel as a nation both as to status and economically, the UK could lose a lot by leaving.
If I knew for sure,nothing would be lost and I was hearing from the EU that they will look favourably on the UK after it leaves.
Also if I could hear any non EU Nations saying they will vastly increases their trade with the UK if it leaves the EU.
Then I would feel the out side had a credible case.

Sadly as I say almost every day off here,I hear nothing at all as to that or that it is even likely.

I am not looking at this for just myself, I am thinking of the whole economic picture for the UK, short term and long term, I am looking at my Nephews and Nieces and thinking of their futures.

Lots of issues and elements involved in making my mind up,and although I do make my own mind up, it is when I have the whole picture, and have also considered everyone else I share the UK with too overall,rather than just myself.

This will possibly be dismissed as rubbish by you again however this is my view and in part how I came to support staying in,so because I followed my own thinking as to research and others needs as well as the benefits and problems of the EU too, I am happy with my choice.

[Johnnyuk123]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I don't see it that way, voters elected govts of both main parties who after being elected signed up to all we have as to the EU and therefore helped form it as it is.

So I see that as the voters sanctioning same by repeatedly electing govts that did so.

Now however no further transfer of powers can take place,or even any new treaty signed without the UK electorate being asked in a referendum.

So I do not feel I am losing anything however I do feel as a nation both as to status and economically, the UK could lose a lot by leaving.
If I knew for sure,nothing would be lost and I was hearing from the EU that they will look favourably on the UK after it leaves.
Also if I could hear any non EU Nations saying they will vastly increases their trade with the UK if it leaves the EU.
Then I would feel the out side had a credible case.

Sadly as I say almost every day off here,I hear nothing at all as to that or that it is even likely.

I am not looking at this for just myself, I am thinking of the whole economic picture for the UK, short term and long term, I am looking at my Nephews and Nieces and thinking of their futures.

Lots of issues and elements involved in making my mind up,and although I do make my own mind up, it is when I have the whole picture, and have also considered everyone else I share the UK with too overall,rather than just myself.

So you are happy to hand over any power to un elected people in another country to whom you do not know and to let them make decisions for you? This is what i mean... You believe in making up your own mind on issues yet are so blinkered right now that you cannot see that you will have far less of an opinion if any at all by remaining in the failed EU.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123

So you are happy to hand over any power to un elected people in another country to whom you do not know and to let them make decisions for you? This is what i mean... You believe in making up your own mind on issues yet are so blinkered right now that you cannot see that you will have far less of an opinion if any at all by remaining in the failed EU.

I am very happy with the deal, trade and otherwise the UK now has with the EU yes.

No more powers can be transferred without the UK electorates permission in a referendum.
We never need to join the euro.
We do not have to be part of any further political integration with the EU after the PMs deal this year.

I have made my own mind up on that definitely and I have further made my own mind up on that I doubt very much that the UK could get anything like the deal it has with the EU now, even just on trade, that is already has.

I also think,not just as to myself but that the UK the Nation I was born in and live in, will also have little more than just an opinion around the world rather than influence, overall, 'if' it leaves the EU.

[Johnnyuk123]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I don't see it that way, voters elected govts of both main parties who after being elected signed up to all we have as to the EU and therefore helped form it as it is.

So I see that as the voters sanctioning same by repeatedly electing govts that did so.

Now however no further transfer of powers can take place,or even any new treaty signed without the UK electorate being asked in a referendum.

So I do not feel I am losing anything however I do feel as a nation both as to status and economically, the UK could lose a lot by leaving.
If I knew for sure,nothing would be lost and I was hearing from the EU that they will look favourably on the UK after it leaves.
Also if I could hear any non EU Nations saying they will vastly increases their trade with the UK if it leaves the EU.
Then I would feel the out side had a credible case.

Sadly as I say almost every day off here,I hear nothing at all as to that or that it is even likely.

I am not looking at this for just myself, I am thinking of the whole economic picture for the UK, short term and long term, I am looking at my Nephews and Nieces and thinking of their futures.

Lots of issues and elements involved in making my mind up,and although I do make my own mind up, it is when I have the whole picture, and have also considered everyone else I share the UK with too overall,rather than just myself.

This will possibly be dismissed as rubbish by you again however this is my view and in part how I came to support staying in,so because I followed my own thinking as to research and others needs as well as the benefits and problems of the EU too, I am happy with my choice.

Your own thinking is exactly my point. You won't have it.

[Johnnyuk123]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I don't see it that way, voters elected govts of both main parties who after being elected signed up to all we have as to the EU and therefore helped form it as it is.

So I see that as the voters sanctioning same by repeatedly electing govts that did so.

Now however no further transfer of powers can take place,or even any new treaty signed without the UK electorate being asked in a referendum.

So I do not feel I am losing anything however I do feel as a nation both as to status and economically, the UK could lose a lot by leaving.
If I knew for sure,nothing would be lost and I was hearing from the EU that they will look favourably on the UK after it leaves.
Also if I could hear any non EU Nations saying they will vastly increases their trade with the UK if it leaves the EU.
Then I would feel the out side had a credible case.

Sadly as I say almost every day off here,I hear nothing at all as to that or that it is even likely.

I am not looking at this for just myself, I am thinking of the whole economic picture for the UK, short term and long term, I am looking at my Nephews and Nieces and thinking of their futures.

Lots of issues and elements involved in making my mind up,and although I do make my own mind up, it is when I have the whole picture, and have also considered everyone else I share the UK with too overall,rather than just myself.

This will possibly be dismissed as rubbish by you again however this is my view and in part how I came to support staying in,so because I followed my own thinking as to research and others needs as well as the benefits and problems of the EU too, I am happy with my choice.

I am 1000% certain that if in the morning Boris Johnson was made PM you would be in here and have a massive issue with it. Yet you have no issue with un elected people in another country running the UK. Explain? Please explain why you are in favor of strangers running the UK from over seas over UK residents?

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123

I am 1000% certain that if in the morning Boris Johnson was made PM you would be in here and have a massive issue with it. Yet you have no issue with un elected people in another country running the UK. Explain? Please explain why you are in favor of strangers running the UK from over seas over UK residents?

What??

If the UK votes to leave and by some backwards miracle the Conservative party elects Boris as leader and PM then I equally have to accept that.
Only in a general election can I express my dissatisfaction and vote for another party but yes I would be moaning that he was PM as I do not feel he deserves to be in any way.

Others however,wouldn't agree and would welcome that taking place.

I don't see anyone overseas running the UK,I see 28 Nations making decisions,with the UK being one of them, and it likely getting harder for the unelected element to influence more as to EU matters now.

I simply do not myself see the negatives of the EU as you do,just as you cannot see the positives to it either.
Although at least I can and do accept there are both positives and negatives as to its make up.

[bots]

I don't honestly see the point of the debates if its just going to re-hash the same old crap over and over again. We have had months of "debate" already with no-one addressing the fundamental issues. I think it will be a complete waste of time.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

I don't honestly see the point of the debates if its just going to re-hash the same old crap over and over again. We have had months of "debate" already with no-one addressing the fundamental issues. I think it will be a complete waste of time.

It is actually questions that spoil these debates.
They are left disappointing because of the right questions not being asked or deemed not worthy of time to be.

If you have 2 speakers,have them make their presentations uninterrupted,then a period where they challenge each other.
With then the audience asking on the spot questions, not prepared ones, as to anything not covered by the 2 speakers.

These things when staged come across as false and as you say little is learned at all that is new, or often even relevant.

[Kizzy]

Remember the 'debates' in Leeds before the election, the one with the tory plants? My guess is it'll be a bit like that.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Remember the 'debates' in Leeds before the election, the one with the tory plants? My guess is it'll be a bit like that.

Sneaky

[billy123]

The debates could be great but rarely are.
With this debate i would like to see each side of the fence give 5 reasons why they think to leave/stay would be better but with a right to question each point in between.

i.e. to stay reason 1: because (insert whatever) .questions asked by to leave and replied to by to stay.
to leave reason 1: becaue (insert whatever) .questions asked by to stay and replied to by to leave.
repeat x5

Otherwise it just becomes a who is the most shiny well polished media friendly speaker excercise which has fluff all to do with actual policy.

I also have no interest in listening to an audience opinion. The real audience are sat at home they dont need studio audience input that is too open to manipulation by the media.

[Crimson Dynamo]

whilst this will be fun to watch there is not way in hell the vote will be to leave

[billy123]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

whilst this will be fun to watch there is not way in hell the vote will be to leave

Have you decided yet?
I havent.

[bots]

So many egos involved in this, its shameful .....

Vote Leave is considering legal action after ITV decided to put Nigel Farage up against David Cameron in an EU referendum TV special.

The official Leave campaign had wanted one of its senior figures - Michael Gove or Boris Johnson - to take part and claimed No 10 had "set the rules".

ITV rejected claims of a "stitch up", while Mr Farage, UKIP leader, said Vote Leave should "put their egos aside".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36273499

[billy123]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

So many egos involved in this, its shameful .....

Vote Leave is considering legal action after ITV decided to put Nigel Farage up against David Cameron in an EU referendum TV special.

The official Leave campaign had wanted one of its senior figures - Michael Gove or Boris Johnson - to take part and claimed No 10 had "set the rules".

ITV rejected claims of a "stitch up", while Mr Farage, UKIP leader, said Vote Leave should "put their egos aside".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36273499

It is media influece however you look at it. Decisions on who should be representing their point of view on tv should be made by each leave/stay campaign not a media company.

I dont know who ITV would prefer to win but i do know their primary reasoning will be tv ratings which is not in the public interest just their own interest.

[bots]

Originally Posted by bobnot

It is media influece however you look at it. Decisions on who should be representing their point of view on tv should be made by each leave/stay campaign not a media company.

I dont know who ITV would prefer to win but i do know their primary reasoning will be tv ratings which is not in the public interest just their own interest.

The moment the debate is shown on a media channel, it is influenced by the media, I've never been comfortable with these "debates"

I do agree that the official representative should put forward who they want for the debate if its an official debate. This is clearly not that though, its just a TV show.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

So many egos involved in this, its shameful .....

Vote Leave is considering legal action after ITV decided to put Nigel Farage up against David Cameron in an EU referendum TV special.

The official Leave campaign had wanted one of its senior figures - Michael Gove or Boris Johnson - to take part and claimed No 10 had "set the rules".

ITV rejected claims of a "stitch up", while Mr Farage, UKIP leader, said Vote Leave should "put their egos aside".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36273499

How can they pit the other two against cameron? They are from his own party, wouldn't that just lead to speculations of massive rifts and leadership challenges that would deflect from the issue.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

How can they pit the other two against cameron? They are from his own party, wouldn't that just lead to speculations of massive rifts and leadership challenges that would deflect from the issue.

The electoral commission thingy designated vote leave as the official representative for the out campaign. If they are not allowed to choose who represents them in a debate, then the debate can't be designated official. If its not an official debate, and it gets shown on television during the pre-referendum period, then it risks violating the rules of fairness around voting.

Its an interesting one for sure

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

The electoral commission thingy designated vote leave as the official representative for the out campaign. If they are not allowed to choose who represents them in a debate, then the debate can't be designated official. If its not an official debate, and it gets shown on television during the pre-referendum period, then it risks violating the rules of fairness around voting.

Its an interesting one for sure

I'd say one of the rules is they can't put two members of the same party together, what's wrong with farage doing it anyway? isn't this his thing as an MEP?

[bots]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I'd say one of the rules is they can't put two members of the same party together, what's wrong with farage doing it anyway? isn't this his thing as an MEP?

well Farage wasn't given official blessing to lead the out campaign, so he is effectively a concerned citizen the same as you and I ... nothing more

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I'd say one of the rules is they can't put two members of the same party together, what's wrong with farage doing it anyway? isn't this his thing as an MEP?

Nothing wrong at all Kizzy in Nigel Farage taking part.

For me he is the one who should be leading the out campaign.
At least when he says anything EU related,you know it is coming from his own experience and sincere determined commitment to the UK leaving the EU.

I don't agree with all he says or his position at present but I will take far more notice of and respect him more than the other turncoats such as Boris Johnson.

[Kizzy]

Yes there was a very generous allowance on offer to lead the campaign, it was always going to go straight back in elite coffers wasn't it? Like most public money.