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bots · 09-03-2020, 12:59 PM

The trial of Alex Salmond, who denies sexually assaulting 10 women while serving as Scotland's first minister, has started.

The former SNP leader faces a total of 14 charges at the High Court in Edinburgh.

They include allegations of 10 sexual assaults, two indecent assaults, one attempted rape and an assault with intent to rape.

Mr Salmond says he is innocent, and has pled not guilty to all of the charges.

He has vowed to defend himself vigorously during the trial, and has lodged special defences of consent to four of the charges, and a special defence of alibi to a further charge.

The first witness in the trial is known as Woman H. Mr Salmond is accused of sexually assaulting her and attempting to rape her.

The trial is being held before judge Lady Dorrian and a jury of 15 members of the public, which was selected on Monday morning.

The charges, which Mr Salmond denies, are set out in an indictment which includes the specific details of the allegations against the former SNP leader.

As with all sexual offence cases in Scotland, the media is not allowed to publish the names of the 10 alleged victims or any other information that could identify them, unless they give permission.

The alleged attempted rape is said to have happened in June 2014 at the first minister's official Bute House residence in Edinburgh. He is alleged to have pinned a woman against a wall and to have removed her clothes and his own, before pushing her onto a bed and lying naked on top of her.

The other 13 charges allege that Mr Salmond:

Indecently assaulted a woman on a number of occasions in Glasgow in June and July 2008 by kissing her on the mouth and touching her buttocks and breasts with his hands over her clothing

Sexually assaulted the same woman in December 2010 or December 2011 in the Ego nightclub in Edinburgh by touching her arms and hips with his hands over her clothing

Indecently assaulted a woman in October or November 2010 at Bute House by repeatedly seizing her by the wrists and repeatedly pulling her towards him and attempting to kiss her

Sexually assaulted a woman in a car in Edinburgh in February 2011 by touching her leg with his hand over her clothing

Sexually assaulted a woman on various occasions between 2011 and 2013 at Bute House, the Scottish Parliament and other locations by touching her buttocks with his hands over her clothing, stroking her arms, and touching and stroking her hair

Sexually assaulted a woman at Bute House in October 2013 by removing her foot from her shoe, stroking her foot, lifting her foot towards his mouth and attempting to kiss her foot

Sexually assaulted a woman at Bute House in November or December 2013 by kissing her on the mouth

Intended to rape the same woman in December 2013 at Bute House by causing her to sit on a bed, lying on top of her, making sexual remarks to her, touching her buttocks, thighs and breasts over her clothing with his hands, repeatedly kissing her face, struggling with her and pulling up her dress

Sexually assaulted a woman in 2012 at the Ubiquitous Chip restaurant in Glasgow by touching her buttocks with his hand over her clothing

Sexually assaulted the same woman at Bute House in April 2014 by placing his arm around her, making sexual remarks to her and attempting to kiss her
Sexually assaulted a woman at Bute House in May 2014 by placing his arm around her body, placing his hand under her clothing and underwear and touching her breast, repeatedly kissing her on the face and neck and stroking her leg with his hand

Sexually assaulted a woman at Bute House in September 2014 by seizing her by the shoulders, repeatedly kissing her on the face, attempting to kiss her on the lips and touching her leg and face with his hand

Sexually assaulted a woman at Stirling Castle in November 2014 by touching her buttock with his hand over her clothing

Mr Salmond says he is innocent of all the allegations against him, and has entered not guilty pleas to all 14 of the charges.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...itics-51707459

Christmas Dynamo · 09-03-2020, 01:04 PM

Alex is currently innocent and his is guilt must be proved beyond reasonable doubt.

I cant see that happening unless they have some video evidence. Alex has a very good legal team

Holly Christmas · 09-03-2020, 01:48 PM

14 charges though. No smoke without fire.

Christmas Dynamo · 09-03-2020, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kate!

14 charges though. No smoke without fire.

in cases like this yes there is

AnnieKristmas · 09-03-2020, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

in cases like this yes there is

How do you know? Not being facetious,I don't know very much about it. There must have been enough evidence of some sort to get it to trial??

Vicky. · 09-03-2020, 01:59 PM

Its near impossible to get convictions in current rape/sexual assault cases, even with a fair amount of physical evidence (hell in one case, even with the rape being caught on tape). Cannot see this getting far at all.

Christmas Dynamo · 09-03-2020, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnnieK

How do you know? Not being facetious,I don't know very much about it. There must have been enough evidence of some sort to get it to trial??

The law in this country is that you are presumed innocent unless proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt.

"no smoke without fire" does not come into a court of law and is the language of the mob

Vicky. · 09-03-2020, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

The law in this country is that you are presumed innocent unless proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt.

"no smoke without fire" does not come into a court of law and is the language of the mob

When accusations are spread around in the press, it does cloud things somewhat. If say, 10 seemingly unrelated women said the same thing, randomly, about the same man that is a bit damining. However, if one does, then the press spread it around, and then others say it..it..is slightly different.

Dont get me wrong, I know how rare false accusations are. But I do acknowledge that when it comes to high profile men, lots of press, the possibility of compensation..it can encourage chancers. And then people can assume guilt simply because there are a lot of accusations also. Bad bad combo really.

I still do think a lot (again, not all) of these older guys probably did behave innapropriately towards women at some stage though. I mean, guys today do it all the time. Not all of them, but enough. And it was all way more acceptable then too..almost 'normal'. No I am not including rape in behaving dodgily..but 'sexual assault' covers a LOT of ground, patting women on the bum, and stuff included.

ChristmasNeeve · 09-03-2020, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicky.

When accusations are spread around in the press, it does cloud things somewhat. If say, 10 seemingly unrelated women said the same thing, randomly, about the same man that is a bit damining. However, if one does, then the press spread it around, and then others say it..it..is slightly different.

Dont get me wrong, I know how rare false accusations are. But I do acknowledge that when it comes to high profile men, lots of press, the possibility of compensation..it can encourage chancers. And then people can assume guilt simply because there are a lot of accusations also. Bad bad combo really.

This is why it's better to have the rule we have here about the accused not being allowed to be named unless they're found guilty. It also protects the accusers/victims better because alot of times they get treated as badly or worse than the accused

Vicky. · 09-03-2020, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh.

This is why it's better to have the rule we have here about the accused not being allowed to be named unless they're found guilty

Yeah, mind thats not always that sucessful when the guy is really high profile. The stories about Conor McGregor were almost amusing sometimes to read while they could not name, but it was clear who it was about!

Alf · 09-03-2020, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kate!

14 charges though. No smoke without fire.

What about smoke machines?

ChristmasNeeve · 09-03-2020, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Yeah, mind thats not always that sucessful when the guy is really high profile. The stories about Conor McGregor were almost amusing sometimes to read while they could not name, but it was clear who it was about!

Yeah but loads of people don't connect it to him still because it wasn't in any papers or on TV and still I wouldn't say much about it because I can't be 100% sure it was about him either

Vicky. · 09-03-2020, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah but loads of people don't connect it to him still because it wasn't in any papers or on TV and still I wouldn't say much about it because I can't be 100% sure it was about him either

Oh yeah, its definitely much preferable. The way we do it here does lead to (and I hate this term generally but no other way of putting it..) witchhunts sometimes.

Main one that comes to mind, Cliff Richard. Now, personal opinions aside, theres no proof he did anything at all wrong at all, But because the raid was publicied everywhere, many people now think he did as 'why would the police raid without evidence' etc. Yeah, I think the BBC paid him compensation, but the damage is done. Also a knock on effect of all that publicity, could well be that chancers see an oppurtunity to muddy the waters a bit and try for some compensation themselves by making allegations. On the other hand, some genuine victims could feel they can come forward now and end up being blamed for being chancers...either way, the publicity does noone any good. Except gossip mongers.

ChristmasNeeve · 09-03-2020, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Oh yeah, its definitely much preferable. The way we do it here does lead to (and I hate this term generally but no other way of putting it..) witchhunts sometimes.

Main one that comes to mind, Cliff Richard. Now, personal opinions aside, theres no proof he did anything at all wrong at all, But because the raid was publicied everywhere, many people now think he did as 'why would the police raid without evidence' etc. Yeah, I think the BBC paid him compensation, but the damage is done. Also a knock on effect of all that publicity, could well be that chancers see an oppurtunity to muddy the waters a bit and try for some compensation themselves by making allegations. On the other hand, some genuine victims could feel they can come forward now and end up being blamed for being chancers...either way, the publicity does noone any good. Except gossip mongers.

Yeah and the victims/alleged victims usually get a really hard time if the accused was in anyway a popular celeb too

Firewire · 23-03-2020, 03:03 PM

Not guilty

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-52004285

Firewire · 23-03-2020, 03:04 PM

I find it really difficult to understand - I've followed the evidence (that's been published) all trial. It's been clear as day. Really disappointing for the nine women.

Christmas Dynamo · 23-03-2020, 03:21 PM

The 65-year-old former first minister has been acquitted of 13 alleged sexual offences, including one attempted rape against women who either working for the Scottish Government or within the SNP between June 2008 and November 2014.

Mr Salmond, 65, of Strichen, Aberdeenshire, had told a criminal trial at the High Court in Edinburgh he was not guilty.

Tinsel Toes · 23-03-2020, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

The 65-year-old former first minister has been acquitted of 13 alleged sexual offences, including one attempted rape against women who either working for the Scottish Government or within the SNP between June 2008 and November 2014.

Mr Salmond, 65, of Strichen, Aberdeenshire, had told a criminal trial at the High Court in Edinburgh he was not guilty.

So now he's out to get Mrs Fish