[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

ok true

but this is again another incident what could've sooo easily avoided if people just stay home, and rather than doing disgusting **** like this, more being kind for each other as it should now more than ever

How.. how do you know those children weren't killed in their beds at home?

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I don't know why everyone is clutching their pearls at the idea of there being a problem with parenting - it's 100% correct that most teens who get caught up in cycles of crime and violence come from "broken" backgrounds, often heavy substance abuse, often not even living with a parent at all.

Sure there are a VERY SMALL number who come from normal family homes but have gone massively off the rails for other reasons (psychological disorders, getting drawn in by someone else influential, being badly bullied themselves and flipping to the other side to stop being the target) but there is simply no denying that severely delinquent behaviour in under 18's is linked to problems at home.

Exactly! I will concede that sometimes people use it as a stick to beat single mothers with - "your kind always become criminals!!!" - which isn't acceptable, but saying most people who do X come from Y circumstances isn't the same as saying most people from Y circumstances do X

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I take it you're mocking me here... added a sociology degree to your list of accolades? Well done.

You've been rather confrontational lately, is isolation bringing you down?

[Kizzy]

The stereotyping is real... This is the debates section, I'm having a say, there are the usual put downs but I press on.

[Denver]

When you are from the Birmingham area you will know what bad parenting is like.

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

How.. how do you know those children weren't killed in their beds at home?

similar stabbing incidents happen far too often here in my country too


and much more criminality among youth here recently (which i and my parents blame on bad parenting either)

[Livia]

A baby girl of 12 months and a three year old little boy stabbed to death in Ilford. The girl was dead already and the boy died of his injuries in hospital.

Now that stop and search has been labelled as racist, I suppose it's not PC to mention that knife crime(and gun crime) is predominantly a black crime and ask when someone's going to ask the black community to help? Rather than let babies be slaughtered for the sake of race relations.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

The stereotyping is real... This is the debates section, I'm having a say, there are the usual put downs but I press on.

It's not stereotyping, children from traumatic backgrounds are more likely to end up with addiction problems or involved in gangs/violence (or both). It's an important statistic and not one to poo-poo away, because acknowledging it is what allows for earlier intervention and support for vulnerable youngsters. Thankfully, CAMHS, social services, addiction services and various charitable organisations DO recognise this and go with robust science and empirical evidence, and not anecdotal nothings like "Well plenty of people have a tough time and don't become criminals".

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Livia

Now that stop and search has been labelled as racist, I suppose it's not PC to mention that knife crime(and gun crime) is predominantly a black crime and ask when someone's going to ask the black community to help? Rather than let babies be slaughtered for the sake of race relations.

Violent crime isn't "black crime", it's "social deprivation crime" but unfortunately it is the case that the most deprived communities (especially in the south of England) are the BAME communities, and therefore the crimes are more likely to be committed by people from those communities.

You only need to look to your good cousins up North to see that; plenty of addictions and knife crime in Glasgow, too, as there are plenty of deprived areas... but they're overall much "whiter".

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Violent crime isn't "black crime", it's "social deprivation crime" but unfortunately it is the case that the most deprived communities (especially in the south of England) are the BAME communities, and therefore the crimes are more likely to be committed by people from those communities.

You only need to look to your good cousins up North to see that; plenty of addictions and knife crime in Glasgow, too, as there are plenty of deprived areas... but they're overall much "whiter".

Exactly, the difference is when it happens in places like Glasgow it's never referred to as "white on white violence" or "White crime" it's referred to as what it actually is, like you said "social deprivation crime" that is racist

[Denver]

The 20 year old who was killed in Smethwick was I think killed by a female, the person who filmed it kept saying she stabbed him

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Violent crime isn't "black crime", it's "social deprivation crime" but unfortunately it is the case that the most deprived communities (especially in the south of England) are the BAME communities, and therefore the crimes are more likely to be committed by people from those communities.

You only need to look to your good cousins up North to see that; plenty of addictions and knife crime in Glasgow, too, as there are plenty of deprived areas... but they're overall much "whiter".

Hasn't scotland managed to dramatically reduce knife crime?


It is a point that needs raised actually...probably one that gets me banned or accused of being racist.


But if scotland and it's white community that carried knives can together dramatically reduce those knife crimes..


Why can't England and it's black/asian community not only reduce thiers, but also stop it dramatically rising. It can only be that black, white and asian are more different than the colour of skin

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It's not stereotyping, children from traumatic backgrounds are more likely to end up with addiction problems or involved in gangs/violence (or both). It's an important statistic and not one to poo-poo away, because acknowledging it is what allows for earlier intervention and support for vulnerable youngsters. Thankfully, CAMHS, social services, addiction services and various charitable organisations DO recognise this and go with robust science and empirical evidence, and not anecdotal nothings like "Well plenty of people have a tough time and don't become criminals".

No one has poo pooed it away... I love that people round here get all judgey mc judgeface before they know any facts, then commence lectures if anyone has an opinion.

Do you have any evidence that EVERY child that grows up in poverty or with less than perfect parents is under social services, CAMHS or addicted?...Of course you don't, because that is a ridiculous statement.
Sure there may be a higher proportion of referrals I havent disagreed with that, however my original point is that it is not a given, a. that they will be always be involved b. That that is the case here that the parents are negligent.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

A baby girl of 12 months and a three year old little boy stabbed to death in Ilford. The girl was dead already and the boy died of his injuries in hospital.

Now that stop and search has been labelled as racist, I suppose it's not PC to mention that knife crime(and gun crime) is predominantly a black crime and ask when someone's going to ask the black community to help? Rather than let babies be slaughtered for the sake of race relations.

Is ethnicity involved?... My first instinct was domestic violence, that is not exclusively a 'black crime', if that is a thing...I dont think it is btw.

[Denver]

I also think sentences for knife crimes are to low, people get away with it by being charged for Manslaughter, ABH,Intent to wound what so ever.

If your carrying a knife you intend to use it so it's either murder or attempted murder there should be no other sentence unless its self defence but nobody fighting in streets are self defence

[Cherie]

Unfortunately the first thought for me was domestic violence as well regarding the story of the two babies that have been stabbed, such a tragedy

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Bunch of strawmanning.

At no point did anyone say "all" anything ...

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Don't misquote me..

Ok?

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Please don't misquote me.

Sorry.

At no point did anyone say "all"

[hijaxers]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Is ethnicity involved?... My first instinct was domestic violence, that is not exclusively a 'black crime', if that is a thing...I dont think it is btw.

I think they are a Sri Lankan family

[Kizzy]

And at no point did I say no children of poor parents got into trouble.

[Denver]

Originally Posted by WickedSkengMan

There was another stabbing in Smethwick which isnt far from here.

The video is circulating online and the man had sadly died pretty much before he hit the ground

West Midlands police made a major mistake with the victims identity.

They first said he was 20 but now said he was 31 I dint get how they can get an age wrong by 11 years

[Beso]

It is a point that needs raised actually...probably one that gets me banned or accused of being racist.


But if scotland and it's white community that carried knives can together dramatically reduce those knife crimes..


Why can't England and it's black/asian community not only reduce thiers, but also stop it dramatically rising. It can only be that black, white and asian are more different than the colour of skin

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by WickedSkengMan

They first said he was 20 but now said he was 31 I dint get how they can get an age wrong by 11 years

Maybe it's Maybelline?

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by parmnion

But if scotland and it's white community that carried knives can together dramatically reduce those knife crimes..


Why can't England and it's black/asian community not only reduce thiers, but also stop it dramatically rising. It can only be that black, white and asian are more different than the colour of skin

Have they tried to tackle it in the same way? If not I'm not sure how you can jump to that conclusion.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Have they tried to tackle it in the same way? If not I'm not sure how you can jump to that conclusion.

It wouldn't work though, there's no community spirit in london inner cities, nor elsewhere it seems...unless of course if it's a youth with a knife protecting his postcode. .


It's glaringly obvious that poor scottish white kids have a different outlook than poor black, white and Asian english kids.

I think we would find that english black, white and Asian kids who are in poverty are more likely to turn to violent crime than scottish white asian and black kids suffering the same circumstances if we started delving into the statistics of it all.