[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Livia

You don't talk to me anymore, for some reason. Had you replied to my post for a debate I would have had a conversation with you. But you didn't. Instead you're here to intimate we're all racists when that's simply not true. I don't see that protecting the borders of this country is a racist endeavour. You may, that is your prerogative.

Thats not quite what happened.

You made a number of posts going down the road of 'Prove to me, with examples I approve of, why this is......" etc. This culminated with the non-point that one of Reforms largest contributor is Muslim. You've been on here long enough to know that means nothing. No idea why you bought it up unless you think it means something

We've both read the Reform literature and seen the candidates interviewed. We have different points of views but dont go down the 'Prove it to me bullshit' cuz we both know its a deflection.

OK lets have the discussion., Why does the fact one of their biggest contributors is Muslim matter? Tell me, with examples I approves of, why we've got them all wrong

[Livia]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

Thats not quite what happened.

You made a number of posts going down the road of 'Prove to me, with examples I approve of, why this is......" etc. This culminated with the non-point that one of Reforms largest contributor is Muslim. You've been on here long enough to know that means nothing. No idea why you bought it up unless you think it means something

We've both read the Reform literature and seen the candidates interviewed. We have different points of views but dont go down the 'Prove it to me bullshit' cuz we both know its a deflection.

OK lets have the discussion., Why does the fact one of their biggest contributors is Muslim matter? Tell me, with examples I approves of, why we've got them all wrong

You have your own opinion on Reform, I'm never going to change that. I used the Muslim donor as one of two examples. They are not the only people from ethnic backgrounds who support Reform, if you want to know more, find out yourself if you're interested.

I am not a racist and no one I know who supports Reform is racist. I have no problem with people who come here, some many generations ago - like my Grandmother - and contribute. I have a problem with people who come here illegally and drain resources, put pressure on the NHS, schools and other infrastructure. People who are housed, clothed, given medical treatment etc. while British homeless live on the streets. I have no faith in any of the other parties who promise to do something about it and never do.

Are there racists in Reform? Yes. Are there anti-Semites in Labour? Yes. Do I think the whole of the Labour party is anti-Semitic? No.

That's pretty much all I have to say to you about this. I'm not going to "tell you, with examples you approve of" why you've got them wrong because nothing I say will make any difference.

[arista]

Originally Posted by arista

Kemi Badenoch MP
Tom Tugendhat MP
Robert Jenrick MP
James Cleverly MP
Mel Stride MP


6 of them
soon to be 5 or 4 of them

Priti Patel MP is the first to be Eliminated


[The former immigration minister
Robert Jenrick topped the poll of MPs with 28 votes
followed by
Kemi Badenoch on 22 votes.

Third was James Cleverly with 21, fourth
was Tom Tugendhat with 17,
fifth was Mel Stride with 16 and
on last was Dame Pate 14.]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1d7y92n31zo

[Livia]

Surprised. I thought Stride would be first out.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Livia

Surprised. I thought Stride would be first out.

Yes, I assume he will be next.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

Surprised. I thought Stride would be first out.

I did too.

[bots]

i thought Priti would be out first. Her time has been and gone. It's like Jeremy Hunt at the last leadership election

[Gusto Brunt]

Badenoch is the only one with clout.

Jenrick needs more experience and sadly at the moment doesn't look like leader material.

Tugendhat is so wet. He couldn't lead a class of primary school kids.

[Oliver_W]

I thought she'd have outlasted at least some of the other wet nonentities.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Livia

You have your own opinion on Reform, I'm never going to change that. I used the Muslim donor as one of two examples. They are not the only people from ethnic backgrounds who support Reform, if you want to know more, find out yourself if you're interested.

I am not a racist and no one I know who supports Reform is racist. I have no problem with people who come here, some many generations ago - like my Grandmother - and contribute. I have a problem with people who come here illegally and drain resources, put pressure on the NHS, schools and other infrastructure. People who are housed, clothed, given medical treatment etc. while British homeless live on the streets. I have no faith in any of the other parties who promise to do something about it and never do.

Are there racists in Reform? Yes. Are there anti-Semites in Labour? Yes. Do I think the whole of the Labour party is anti-Semitic? No.

That's pretty much all I have to say to you about this. I'm not going to "tell you, with examples you approve of" why you've got them wrong because nothing I say will make any difference.

This a proper post not like the 'Like what, for instance' that replied to Bots when he stated he thought Reform had extremist values. His reply was perfect - If you dont see it then nonone can explain it to you - but you threw a hissy fit and here we all are.

I only need to point to the awful vetting of candidates that Faradge claimed was a stitch up. Reform seem to attract people with extreme views. I have no idea why. DO you? To double down on what Bots said, If you cant see it then I cant explain it to you.

Other than the immigration policy, tell us what is so attractive about Reform and why does that policy and action against immigrants mean so much to you?

[Liam-]

They’re going to ignore the trouncing they got at the election and the renouncement of their extremities and choose the most extreme option available, Jenrick or Badenoch will win

[GiRTh]

I hope the tories go as extreme as possible just to show how far they are from the party of Thatcher and Major

[MTVN]

Looks like it'll be between Jenrick and Kemi

I don't mind either of them. Kemi might prove a bit confrontational though

[arista]

Next Tuesday
another is eliminated.

Robert Jenrick MP 28 votes
Kemi Badenoch MP 22 votes
James Cleverly MP 21 votes
Tom Tugendhat MP 17 votes
Mel Stride MP 16 votes



The remaining 4
will then go to the Conservative Conference
29th September – 2nd October 2024.
Conference location: International Convention
Centre 8 Centenary Square
Birmingham B1 2EA.

[Maru]

Are any of these people actual leaders or just "names"?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

This a proper post not like the 'Like what, for instance' that replied to Bots when he stated he thought Reform had extremist values. His reply was perfect - If you dont see it then nonone can explain it to you - but you threw a hissy fit and here we all are.

I only need to point to the awful vetting of candidates that Faradge claimed was a stitch up. Reform seem to attract people with extreme views. I have no idea why. DO you? To double down on what Bots said, If you cant see it then I cant explain it to you.

Other than the immigration policy, tell us what is so attractive about Reform and why does that policy and action against immigrants mean so much to you?

Looked to me like it was you who had the hissy fit about a post I made to someone else.

I believe Reform attracts dubious types because they have failed to disassociate themselves adequately from Britain First nutters and the like, who are just plain old racists. I believe this will get better, all parties have struggled in the past to get decent candidates, Reform is no exception.

Other than a ban on non-essential immigration, and that doesn't include taking refugees through legal routes like the UN and the Red Cross, which we already do, there are several attractive policies for me from Reform:

Cutting tax for small businesses, taking the level at which they pay VAT up from Ł90k to Ł150k. Raising the stamp duty threshold. Creating a Royal Commission for social care. I don't know what social care is like where you live but where I live it's abysmal, especially elderly care. Scrapping Net Zero, we're installing wind turbines for green energy that are made in Chinese coal-fired foundries. Madness. Labour plans to charge VAT on private school fees which will mean lots of kids currently in private schools will suddenly land in already overcrowded and underachieving state schools. Reform want to give parents of kids in private school a tax break. And more money pledged to the NHS.

Just a snapshop. I hope this meets with your approval.

[Cherie]

If its Jenrick v Badenock, cant see the Tory leadership putting a black woman in charge, unless they have learned their lesson from Truss v Sunak

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Cherie

If its Jenrick v Badenock, cant see the Tory leadership putting a black woman in charge, unless they have learned their lesson from Truss v Sunak

The Con members NEVER wanted Sunak.
They didn't likely want Truss however against Sunak she was the preferable choice for them.

Since it's the members only who will decide between the final 2.

However although not a Con admirer myself, I hope for a leader of them who can be stronger.
For me these 5 remaining are still reminders of the circus of the last 5 years particularly.

The Cons as opposition are needed to provide a strong check on what Labour now will do over the next 5 years in government.
Despite it's massive majority.
However this is why I don't like big majorities for votes under 50%

I have next to no doubt that had Labour won with a much smaller majority.
That no way would the winter fuel payment have been touched.
All governments once they get massive majorities head to thinking they're invincible.
So do things they wouldn't normally do.
However that's wrong.

Until the UK gets PR, there'll be no really representative or proper government.
Under this now atrociously failing first past the post system.
Now, more than ever for me, the case for PR has only been strengthened greatly after this last election.

What any new leader of the Cons will look at reforming I haven't a clue.
For me though, it's sad to see the Cons in this plight.
It gives me no pleasure at all.
The one thing they'll need to distance themselves from however, is the Reform ( UKIP MK3) Party.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Livia

Looked to me like it was you who had the hissy fit about a post I made to someone else.

I believe Reform attracts dubious types because they have failed to disassociate themselves adequately from Britain First nutters and the like, who are just plain old racists. I believe this will get better, all parties have struggled in the past to get decent candidates, Reform is no exception.

Other than a ban on non-essential immigration, and that doesn't include taking refugees through legal routes like the UN and the Red Cross, which we already do, there are several attractive policies for me from Reform:

Cutting tax for small businesses, taking the level at which they pay VAT up from Ł90k to Ł150k. Raising the stamp duty threshold. Creating a Royal Commission for social care. I don't know what social care is like where you live but where I live it's abysmal, especially elderly care. Scrapping Net Zero, we're installing wind turbines for green energy that are made in Chinese coal-fired foundries. Madness. Labour plans to charge VAT on private school fees which will mean lots of kids currently in private schools will suddenly land in already overcrowded and underachieving state schools. Reform want to give parents of kids in private school a tax break. And more money pledged to the NHS.

Just a snapshop. I hope this meets with your approval.

Did you get those policies from Wikipedia/BBC. Even the way you phrase them and the order you put them is the same

As for hissy fits. Bots gave you a perfect answer. IF you cant see whats wrong with Reform then no one can tell you and you compared him to another forum member. Looked alot like a hissy fit to me so I came along gave my pence now you're copying articles to act like you've even read the policies.

[GiRTh]

Ooops

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cqll1edxgw4o

[arista]

Originally Posted by Maru

Are any of these people actual leaders or just "names"?

Sunak MP is still the leader

They are all trying to be the new Leader
The Conservatives had done a slow race
The Winner is announced in November 2024


Next Tuesday Mel Stride MP
is likely to get the least votes
so he may be gone.


All have been in the Cabinet
so are at the level to become the new leader

[Livia]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

Ooops

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cqll1edxgw4o

If that's your evidence for a cut and paste job, it's pretty thin.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Livia

If that's your evidence for a cut and paste job, it's pretty thin.

OK if you say so but the same wording and in the same order

[arista]

Shadow health secretary
Victoria Atkins MP backs Robert Jenrick

[arista]

Mel Stride only got 16 votes
So he is now Removed