[Christmas Spirit]

Originally Posted by Garfie

You’ve hit the nail on the head here. For some reason, I also find myself questioning whether she is just spouting regurgitated views, and if there is truly the depth of understanding and experience she suggests she has. In my opinion, she has never said anything that convinces me of her claims of authority on this subject.

Weirdly I think Nathan & Daze are the same,in the sense that ...neither will truly know the effect things have on society. They're both wrapped up in their own bubble.

[Garfie]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

It must've been different where you lived then, because where I lived became a ghost town.

But then my area is very much like Nathan in being very pro-royals.

Not that I'm saying that there's anything wrong with being pro-royals.

I am sure it’s not your intention, but I’m beginning to feel you are treating me like a fool, who has no knowledge of anything outside that of my immediate environment.
I know a lot of people in different parts of the UK, I travel across the country a lot and I follow current affairs closely. There was also an immense amount of television and news coverage, and I can honestly say that I have never heard any other person suggest that any part of the country seemed as if it was in lockdown during the pandemic, in the days following the Queen’s passing.

Perhaps you selected the wrong choice of wording in saying it was as if the whole country was in ‘lockdown’ as that suggests people being very isolated, unable to leave their homes, unable to socialise with others and everything being closed, and it wasn’t anything like that. You also suggested it was the whole country, when perhaps it was just a small, rural area where you live, rather than the reality of the country in general.

[Christmas Dynamo]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Weirdly I think Nathan & Daze are the same,in the sense that ...neither will truly know the effect things have on society. They're both wrapped up in their own bubble.

Nathan has formed opinions

Daze has copied and pasted hers

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by Crimson Dynamo

Nathan has formed opinions

Daze has copied and pasted hers

Daze is a classic case of just enough knowledge to be dangerous mixed with the arrogance of self-perceived purity and self-superiority.

It's then all piled on top of insular groupthink, because you know that the only time that she is exposed to new ideas or a different perspective is in a combative argument and never in a good faith relaxed discussion.

[MaRuDolph]

Originally Posted by Garfie

Great to read your post, as always, Maru, because you always make interesting and thought-provoking points.
Until the Queen’s death I always thought I could give all take the monarchy, but suddenly we lost someone and something that had been ever-present, and I personally experienced feelings of great insecurity and uncertainty. I felt as if I was on a little dinghy in the expanse of an ocean, without any land in sight. That opened up my mind to the sense of stability, strength and safety the presence of the monarchy gave me, as it is so deeply rooted in the history, traditions and culture of our country. It was then I realised that I needed it there as a continuing presence.

I also felt so very proud of the British people and how we responded as a country. We came together and were united as one entity. As a country, it allowed us to show the best of ourselves, our values and our characteristics as people.
In addition, it was so amazing and so very touching to see the impact that the Queen’s passing had around the world, and in countries that I would never have expected our monarchy to have any relevance, importance or respect. It felt global, and as if the world had also come together because of something so very British.

I will never forget President Macron saying something like ‘ To the British people, she was their Queen, but to the world she was the Queen’. It was one of many beautiful things said that stays with me and still makes me emotional even now. As a result I had to ask myself how could we, as a country, fail to see the value of our Royal Family?

I love Charles as a King, as he is so connected to the people, and demonstrates warmth, strength, affection and appreciation where ever he goes. I think he is wonderfully in touch with his emotions and his people.. I admire his values too, and can now recognise how far ahead of his time his thinking has always been. I see him almost as the Father of our country, and he has brought back that feeling of safety and security I thought was lost.

I can relate that we used to be able to generally to look forward to a peaceful transfer in power and the breath of fresh air that came with it. We haven't had that in a really long time. Unfortunately, there's now a lot of money in political strife. So instead peace must be a personalized mission one subscribes to in life... it's not going to be found in an elected better

In that sense, I have some envy. There's no longer a Swamp Manager that can help direct us through the sociopolitical fray, but rather all have become actively swimmers with the middle managers in DC. I like that the Royals can leave well enough alone and seek pursuits that celebrate the best that the UK has to offer. I too followed along with the funeral procession, getting up early with my daughter. She was entranced by the parades and music, quite similar to how we were when I was of younger age watching the ceremonies in the UK in live television... it's an interesting to experience the effect of fast-forwarding through life in this way. So clearly meaningful to many here and across the world.

[Christmas Spirit]

Originally Posted by vesavius

Daze is a classic case of just knowledge to be dangerous mixed with the arrogance of self-perceived purity and self-superiority.

It's then all piled on top of insular groupthink, because you know that the only time that she is exposed to new ideas or a different perspective is in a combative argument and never in a good faith relaxed discussion.

I'm hoping we get to see more than the same type of argument over and over again, otherwise it will be boring . I don't think BB viewers want to see political debate 24/7 .

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

I'm hoping we get to see more than the same type of argument over and over again, otherwise it will be boring . I don't think BB viewers want to see political debate 24/7 .

Fully agree, yeah.

I actually like a bit of politics but I don't really want it too much in my BB.

[Garfie]

Originally Posted by vesavius

Daze is a classic case of just knowledge to be dangerous mixed with the arrogance of self-perceived purity and self-superiority.

It's then all piled on top of insular groupthink, because you know that the only time that she is exposed to new ideas or a different perspective is in a combative argument and never in a good faith relaxed discussion.

This is such an effective and succinct summary of my perception of Daze and her actual experiences. Great post.

[Garfie]

Originally Posted by Maru

I can relate that we used to be able to generally to look forward to a peaceful transfer in power and the breath of fresh air that came with it. We haven't had that in a really long time. Unfortunately, there's now a lot of money in political strife. So instead peace must be a personalized mission one subscribes to in life... it's not going to be found in an elected better

In that sense, I have some envy. There's no longer a Swamp Manager that can help direct us through the sociopolitical fray, but rather all have become actively swimmers with the middle managers in DC. I like that the Royals can leave well enough alone and seek pursuits that celebrate the best that the UK has to offer. I too followed along with the funeral procession, getting up early with my daughter. She was entranced by the parades and music, quite similar to how we were when I was of younger age watching the ceremonies in the UK in live television... it's an interesting to experience the effect of fast-forwarding through life in this way. So clearly meaningful to many here and across the world.

I feel the sadness that I think you might have been experiencing as you wrote some of this, Maru. I follow US politics quite closely, and recognise how polarised it has made society. From the outside looking in, it seems that so many are being led by political candidates whose ideas are false presentations of the truth, whose speeches are based on criticising or attacking other candidates rather than promoting their own aims, and how people are voting according to personalities rather than policies.

Following Boris, I feel our own politics have moved in a somewhat similar way, and I personally feel we have been living in a state of political chaos for a number of years now too, and it certainly doesn’t make the country around us feel very stable.

I have come to realise and appreciate in recent years that the monarchy does create that sense of stability and continuity when many other situations in our own country, and around the world, seem chaotic. It is so long-standing and deep-rooted in our society, that it can feel almost like a safety net if all else goes wrong. As an adult, I have become aware of how much, in our youth and lack of experience, we can take for granted or dismiss things in life that are actually important and of value.

I’m so pleased that your daughter enjoyed the pageantry of British life and traditions, and that you were able to share that experience with her. Love that!

[Santa Goth]

Originally Posted by bots

I would be happy to see Daze go next Friday

Not before Marcello.

[Santa Goth]

Originally Posted by Garfie

I am sure it’s not your intention, but I’m beginning to feel you are treating me like a fool, who has no knowledge of anything outside that of my immediate environment.
I know a lot of people in different parts of the UK, I travel across the country a lot and I follow current affairs closely. There was also an immense amount of television and news coverage, and I can honestly say that I have never heard any other person suggest that any part of the country seemed as if it was in lockdown during the pandemic, in the days following the Queen’s passing.

Perhaps you selected the wrong choice of wording in saying it was as if the whole country was in ‘lockdown’ as that suggests people being very isolated, unable to leave their homes, unable to socialise with others and everything being closed, and it wasn’t anything like that. You also suggested it was the whole country, when perhaps it was just a small, rural area where you live, rather than the reality of the country in general.

I'm not treating you like a fool, I try to treat every member with respect.

I'm just saying that when you can't access your local shops, go to Restaurants (because they're shut to pay their respects) and even if you choose to stay at home and try to watch TV, and again there's nothing really on because the Channels are either closed for the day, or again are covering the Queen's death, it doesn't exactly feel like you can escape the topic very easily if you don't want to think about it 24/7, which is similar to lockdown (whether anyone else wants to see it that way is up to them obviously, but it's how I saw it.)

And just to clarify, I do not object to paying my respects to any Royal passing away, but it's the borderline forcing people into a 24-48 hour mourning that bothered me about it.

And I know that I am not on my own in that thinking.

[Santa Goth]

Originally Posted by Crimson Dynamo

Nathan has formed opinions

Daze has copied and pasted hers

Nathan has opinions that you agree with.

I personally agree with GoldHeart that both can be naive with some of the arguments that they make against each other.

[fredmeneedle]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

That, and they pay more in taxes than they receive from them.

I find that a ridiculous statement when they are almost fully funded from the taxpayer purse....

[fredmeneedle]

Originally Posted by Crimson Dynamo

Nathan has formed opinions

Daze has copied and pasted hers

This is the perfect summary of the whole thread.

I am waiting for someone to ask Daze how she gets to the demos she attends.... unless it is by horse and cart her whole ethos is blown apart.

[CheapLousyFaggit]

Originally Posted by fredmeneedle

I find that a ridiculous statement when they are almost fully funded from the taxpayer purse....

They have a lot of streams of income, which generate tax ... which is a higher amount than they cost.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by fredmeneedle

I find that a ridiculous statement when they are almost fully funded from the taxpayer purse....

Yes, but the taxpayer involved is for the most part the royals themselves. It is revenue from the Crown Estate properties from which the Sovereign Grant is drawn. The remaining money can easily be seen as a fair wage for the job that they do for the country.

The Sovereign Grant is 15% of the Crown Estate profits, the rest goes into the coffers.

The King ofc also receives an income from the Duchy of Lancaster, William from the Duchy of Cornwall.

The King and the rest pays tax on personal income.

I don't count the costs of maintaining properties such as Buckingham Palace towards the money paid to to the Royals as I, as someone that sees our history worth protecting, see that in the service of us all.

Now, there is an argument that the Royals should pay even more extra for their own security, but in an era where Taylor Swift gets that same level of blue light escort I think it's kind of undermined somewhat (not sure if she repaid those costs or not, but so in the end do the Royals).

In '23 Brand Finance found that the Monarchy delivered a £958 million economic benefit to the UK.

“Spread amongst the 67 million people of the United Kingdom, the recurring financial benefits of the Monarchy are estimated to be over £8.50 per person, per year, and the recurring costs are estimated to be approximately £5.50 per person, per year.”.. Though these numbers include costs such as maintenance of Buckingham palace, security, and the like, which as I said I don't personally include those in the costs of maintaining the Royals.

TL;DR: The Royal family is great value for money.

[HettyLip]

Originally Posted by vesavius

That ' I'll leave' move was gross.

Plus, who is she to say that she knows what's good for pensioners over them?

Arrogant and manipulative.

People saying 'it's a game', yes it is you are right, but you can tell a LOT about a person in how they choose to play a game. When they show you who they are, believe them.

Her position on climate change/global warmins is well presented. and sound.
What do you think caused last year;s UK heatwave and this years abundance of rain. What about the devastation and death toll caused by Hurrican Milton, what about rampaging wildfires all over the world and entire cimmunities
being flooded = remember New Orleans.?
If we continue to treat the planet with such irresponsible disdain, do not be surprised if the stupidity of so many precipitates a mass extinction event.
Sooner rather than later.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by HettyLip

Her position on climate change/global warmins is well presented. and sound.
What do you think caused last year;s UK heatwave and this years abundance of rain. What about the devastation and death toll caused by Hurrican Milton, what about rampaging wildfires all over the world and entire cimmunities
being flooded = remember New Orleans.?
If we continue to treat the planet with such irresponsible disdain, do not be surprised if the stupidity of so many precipitates a mass extinction event.
Sooner rather than later.

This is a big debate and far deeper than simplistic crusading doomsdayers like Daze acknowledge.

As a start though, in the spirit of finding common ground, I 100% agree we badly need a cleaner and kinder approach to the world that we live in.

I will also agree that the climate is changing.

But, no, I don't think that every natural disaster can be viewed as being the result of climate change and I think that the human element in that change is grossly misunderstood by most and over-exaggerated others.

As for her view on astroturf organisations such as Just Stop Oil and their divisive stunts... Well, I believe that they serve no positive purpose and actually turn more on-the-fence types against their claimed cause. Kind of like the actual harm Suffragettes did for the suffrage movement wth their extremist stunts.

Daze doesn't reach out to others in the spirit of communication.. She lectures and berates and relies on them knowing even less than she does or just not being willing to get into it with her. She makes forceful broad generalised claims but if you break them down there is nothing of substance there.

But, honestly, there is nothing 'well formed' in her views, not to someone actually aware of more than one side of the debate.

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

Not before Marcello.

Fingers crossed for a joint eviction !!

The producers may use it as damage limitation and get Marcello outa there




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Christmas Spirit]

Originally Posted by vesavius

This is a big debate and far deeper than simplistic crusading doomsdayers like Daze acknowledge.

As a start though, in the spirit of finding common ground, I 100% agree we badly need a cleaner and kinder approach to the world that we live in.

I will also agree that the climate is changing.

But, no, I don't think that every natural disaster can be viewed as being the result of climate change and I think that the human element in that change is grossly misunderstood by most and over-exaggerated others.

As for her view on astroturf organisations such as Just Stop Oil and their divisive stunts... Well, I believe that they serve no positive purpose and actually turn more on-the-fence types against their claimed cause. Kind of like the actual harm Suffragettes did for the suffrage movement wth their extremist stunts.

Daze doesn't reach out to others in the spirit of communication.. She lectures and berates and relies on them knowing even less than she does or just not being willing to get into it with her. She makes forceful broad generalised claims but if you break them down there is nothing of substance there.

But, honestly, there is nothing 'well formed' in her views, not to someone actually aware of more than one side of the debate.

I wouldn't compare the suffragettes to the just stop oil clowns , I agree with some points you've made though .

Anyone who wanted to learn more about climate change and the dangers, will see some idiot throwing paint or glued to the road ...and be instantly turned off .

They remind me of those extreme vegans who usually get the most publicity ( it figures) as they harass farmers and businesses ,whilst throwing dead pig head's and red paint everywhere. You will never get your point across when you're that forceful and combative.

So far the only one I've seen talk sense about the planet in a kinder way ,is David Attenborough Mr national treasure himself .

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

I wouldn't compare the suffragettes to the just stop oil clowns , I agree with some points you've made though .

Anyone who wanted to learn more about climate change and the dangers, will see some idiot throwing paint or glued to the road ...and be instantly turned off .

They remind me of those extreme vegans who usually get the most publicity ( it figures) as they harass farmers and businesses ,whilst throwing dead pig head's and red paint everywhere. You will never get your point across when you're that forceful and combative.

So far the only one I've seen talk sense about the planet in a kinder way ,is David Attenborough Mr national Treasure himself .

That's because the Suffragettes have been whitewashed and mythologised into something they were not by the activist hard left who love a bit of propaganda. There is a ton of contemporary evidence (letters, news articles & editorials, etc) that shows that they were radicals who actually alienated a lot of the general public against the suffrage movement at the time. The actual heavy lifting of the movement in the UK was done by many moderates, including several male members of parliament and, ofc, World War One which changed everything.

There were two main groups at that time; 'suffragists' who campaigned using peaceful methods such as lobbying, and the 'suffragettes'.

The Suffragists were the less glamorous less remembered moderates who nonetheless did most of the real work.

I know that isn't the version usually spoken about, but it's the truth. The real story of that time isn't one that is often accurately shown.

We do agree on everything else here though

[Cranbenny Jamin]

Anyone gonna be sad if she goes tonight?

[Christmas Spirit]

Originally Posted by Benjamin

Anyone gonna be sad if she goes tonight?

Yes !

I think once again she had a great HL show .

Out of all the cabinate members,Daze was the only one who gave a damn about how the other housemates are feeling ,she had actual empathy for them . And she didn't want to upset anyone.

Whereas Khaled just went along with Emma & Nathan, whilst just saying " yeah Izaaz is tired" . Khaled was enjoying the task more. I think he only slightly felt bad.

[Holly Christmas]

Originally Posted by Benjamin

Anyone gonna be sad if she goes tonight?

So so. I've just gave her a potential farewell in her fanclub thread, I'm pretty sure she's going.

[Adventw92]

Originally Posted by Benjamin

Anyone gonna be sad if she goes tonight?

If it means Ali is safe I’ll get over it but I think it’ll be a shame we’ve lost either of them tonight while there are so many bores still in there.