[ThomasC]

I will start by saying, I do not excuse unacceptable behaviour, but for me, there is always a causation.

I think my view is probably in the minority and maybe it's due to my occupation.

Why is dementia and peodophillia not seen in the same light?

Take your personal feelings out of it.

One will say one can't be helped, one will say the other can.....however, they are both illnesses.

When you look at it at more than surface level, there is reasoning behind these acts. More often than not it is trauma and neurological brain chemistry...there are imbalances in these levels...damage to lobes which are responsible for reasoning and various other factors.

I STRONGLY believe no one is EVER born evil. Just does not happen, but they can be predisposed to events/circumstances that would make such acts evil in themselves.

I use the pedophile/dementia comparison as just one example. Like I say, view it objectively and take your human emotions out of it and then think.

What are your thoughts?

[Crimson Dynamo]

If you are a pedophile you have the choice of whether to abuse children or not and ruin their lives forever

You don't have the choice to lose your short-term memory

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by Crimson Dynamo

If you are a pedophile you have the choice of whether to abuse children or not and ruin their lives forever

You don't have the choice to lose your short-term memory

Is mental health a choice then? Depression for example?

I see this argument a lot so am interested.

Do people go out their way to destroy someone's life intentionally? Causing their victim immense pain, but also themselves.

[Oliver_W]

Depression and dementia can be treated or managed, to certain extents.

If we accept paedophilia as some kind of disorder, it follows it should be treated. With those who have acted on it, removing the head from the shoulders would work nicely. For those who haven't, remove their junk.

Sorted.

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Depression and dementia can be treated or managed, to certain extents.

If we accept paedophilia as some kind of disorder, it follows it should be treated. With those who have acted on it, removing the head from the shoulders would work nicely. For those who haven't, remove their junk.

Sorted.

But this proves a point I am trying to make.

It is a disorder by classification.

There are other treatments which don't involve decapitation.

[Niamh.]

I would have thought if you were to categorise Paedophillia as something it would be more similar to a sexual preference or fetish. It's who you're attracted to. For example If a person was only sexually attracted to women with fake boobs. If they then had sex with someone with fake boobs who didn't want to have sex with them that would still be rape. A child can never consent to sex so it would always be rape.

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I would have thought if you were to categorise Paedophillia as something it would be more similar to a sexual preference or fetish. It's who you're attracted to. For example If a person was only sexually attracted to women with fake boobs. If they then had sex with someone with fake boobs who didn't want to have sex with them that would still be rape. A child can never consent to sex so it would always be rape.

It is a psychiatric disorder. One could question whether it would also be classed as a preference/fetish but with accompanying psychiatric problems. For example, it can be the result of previous trauma experiences.

Agree RE rape.

Like I originally said I don't excuse the behaviour under ANY circumstances, but I view it as an illness.

[Zizu]

This thread may have been better avoiding Pedophilia for sooo many reasons but using CONDITIONS rather than illnesses then you could have compared visible conditions like Cerebral palsy and invisible ones like Autism or ADHD or AuDHD as in Ali’s case


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

It is a psychiatric disorder. One could question whether it would also be classed as a preference/fetish but with accompanying psychiatric problems. For example, it can be the result of previous trauma experiences.

Agree RE rape.

Like I originally said I don't excuse the behaviour under ANY circumstances, but I view it as an illness.

An illness to have it maybe but a choice to act on it. Anyone who has acted on it should never be allowed in to society again imo. No innocent child is worth the risk of trying to rehabilitate someone who would do that. Someone with dementia is a risk to themselves and when that risk is too hard to control or manage they usually need to be put in a home or hospital where they can be looked after professionally.

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by Zizu

This thread may have been better avoiding Pedophilia for sooo many reasons but using CONDITIONS rather than illnesses then you could have compared visible conditions like Cerebral palsy and invisible ones like Autism or ADHD or AuDHD as in Ali’s case


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

That's not the debate though.

Originally Posted by Niamh.

An illness to have it maybe but a choice to act on it. Anyone who has acted on it should never be allowed in to society again imo. No innocent child is worth the risk of trying to rehabilitate someone who would do that. Someone with dementia is a risk to themselves and when that risk is too hard to control or manage they usually need to be put in a home or hospital where they can be looked after professionally.

Is life really black and white like that though?

I would say the same for murderers. It's not viewed as an illness, but clearly they have something wrong with them.

I do believe in rehabilitation, although agree the risks are very high.

My point being, take away peodophillia, that society views things differently despite illnesses. As humans we can't help our emotions and how we feel on such subjects.

They need help as much as anyone, but it's generally not viewed that way

[Beso]

I'm not trying to be clever,or confrontational or nasty.


But something I've never understood is why being attracted to children is seen as an illness, when being attracted to the same sex, isnt.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

That's not the debate though.



Is life really black and white like that though?

I would say the same for murderers. It's not viewed as an illness, but clearly they have something wrong with them.

I do believe in rehabilitation, although agree the risks are very high.

My point being, take away peodophillia, that society views things differently despite illnesses. As humans we can't help our emotions and how we feel on such subjects.

They need help as much as anyone, but it's generally not viewed that way

Yes it's pretty damn black and white when you're talking about protecting children

Originally Posted by Beso

I'm not trying to be clever,or confrontational or nasty.


But something I've never understood is why being attracted to children is seen as an illness, when being attracted to the same sex, isnt.

Really? you can't see what's different about consenting adults choosing who they want to be in relationships with and child sexual abusers?

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yes it's pretty damn black and white when you're talking about protecting children



Really? you can't see what's different about consenting adults choosing who they want to be in relationships with and child sexual abusers?

It's not really what I mean...people are attracted to children, they cant help who they are attracted to, like people attracted to the same sex, they cant help it either, neither can straight people I suppose..but onto one of those three is seen as an illness.

Not gonna say anything else now, cause it nay come across the wrong way when it isnt intended to. It just interests me, that's all.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Beso

It's not really what I mean...people are attracted to children, they cant help who they are attracted to, like people attracted to the same sex, they cant help it either, neither can straight people I suppose..but onto one of those three is seen as an illness.

Not gonna say anything else now, cause it nay come across the wrong way when it isnt intended to. It just interests me, that's all.

Yes because that one is an attraction to children who haven't even developed properly yet, gone through puberty etc. Any indulgence into that attraction is going to be non consensual aka sexual abuse/rape

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yes because that one is an attraction to children who haven't even developed properly yet, gone through puberty etc. Any indulgence into that attraction is going to be non consensual aka sexual abuse/rape

Yeah, I get that. But take all that away and just leave the condition/illness, whatever it is there. It surely all comes under the same part of the brain, all 3 of the feelings must be produced by the same part of the brain. So whos to say your brains faulty cause you like this or that.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Beso

Yeah, I get that. But take all that away and just leave the condition/illness, whatever it is there. It surely all comes under the same part of the brain, all 3 of the feelings must be produced by the same part of the brain. So whos to say your brains faulty cause you like this or that.

Well, that's the point I made in my first post in the thread about it being more of a sexual preference/fetish than a mental illness. I don't think anyone cares who or what you're attracted to as long as it doesn't impact on anyone who isn't a consenting adult

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I would have thought if you were to categorise Paedophillia as something it would be more similar to a sexual preference or fetish. It's who you're attracted to. For example If a person was only sexually attracted to women with fake boobs. If they then had sex with someone with fake boobs who didn't want to have sex with them that would still be rape. A child can never consent to sex so it would always be rape.

But isnt there a thing where children are attracted to adults, and people always say children know if they are in the wrong body, or attracted to the same sex etc, as young as 7 year old I've heard people say..


Should the age of consent be lowered even further to keep everyone with each of these illnesses happy?

[Ammi]

@ThomasC

…this is an interesting article in terms of paedophilia …

https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/artic...9-54586689ae3c

and obviously it is a disorder that many don’t act on… so in itself is open to therapies …but when it is acted on in the sexual abuse/rape of a child then it becomes a criminal offence also so that’s when it starts to get more blurred …I agree with Niamh, it’s a choice to act on something and in doing that it changes everything really, doesn’t it…and as a society we do find any harm/abuse/any act of violence etc some of the most abhorrent because it preys on the very most vulnerable and helpless…and that tends to be the prime thing/view more than anything else in society because it’s difficult for the human being to see ‘victim’ in someone who has committed a heinous act against a child …they’ve then crossed over into predator, rather than victim of something awful in their lives as well…

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Beso

But isnt there a thing where children are attracted to adults, and people always say children know if they are in the wrong body, or attracted to the same sex etc, as young as 7 year old I've heard people say..


Should the age of consent be lowered even further to keep everyone with each of these illnesses happy?

I'm not the people who say this so you're asking the wrong person there...

I absolutely do not think the age of consent should be lowered no, they're there to protect children until they're physically, mentally and emotionally mature enough to make those decisions

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I'm not the people who say this so you're asking the wrong person there...

I absolutely do not think the age of consent should be lowered no, they're there to protect children until they're physically, mentally and emotionally mature enough to make those decisions

I agree, but to be devils advocate, dont some children mature physically and mentally quicker than others..I mean, let's face facts, and take marcello as an example..he lost his virginity at 14, so must have been ready. Infact I lost mine at 14 to a 15vyear old girl.. We were both more than ready.

So as stupid as this sounds.. why shouldnt a mature enough kid be allowed consensual sex with an adult?

I dont think it should by the way, but as I said, I'm being devils advocate.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Beso

I agree, but to be devils advocate, dont some children mature physically and mentally quicker than others..I mean, let's face facts, and take marcello as an example..he lost his virginity at 14, so must have been ready. Infact I lost mine at 14 to a 15vyear old girl.. We were both more than ready.

So as stupid as this sounds.. why shouldnt a mature enough kid be allowed consensual sex with an adult?

I dont think it should by the way, but as I said, I'm being devils advocate.

because a line needs to be drawn somewhere, in your situation you're talking about you and a girl who was also a teenager, the law allows for that,teenagers will experiment with each other when they feel ready of course, that's how it's supposed to be. The law is to protect minors and children from predators, fully grown adults looking to take advantage. A grown man or woman has no business pursuing school kids.

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by Beso

I'm not trying to be clever,or confrontational or nasty.


But something I've never understood is why being attracted to children is seen as an illness, when being attracted to the same sex, isnt.

The age is the difference.

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yes it's pretty damn black and white when you're talking about protecting children



Really? you can't see what's different about consenting adults choosing who they want to be in relationships with and child sexual abusers?

Child protection is often not black and white imo. It can be extremely complicated.

It's black and white in one sense, as in it's clear rape if they are a child, but otherwise not really.

There is a threshold to meet for 'child protection' in a broader sense. Initially a CPC (child protection conference), strategy meetings, Section 47 enquiries to determine whether a child is at risk from harm.

But when I talk about it not being black and white, I was more on about the reasons for committing criminality.

Originally Posted by Ammi

@ThomasC

…this is an interesting article in terms of paedophilia …

https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/artic...9-54586689ae3c

and obviously it is a disorder that many don’t act on… so in itself is open to therapies …but when it is acted on in the sexual abuse/rape of a child then it becomes a criminal offence also so that’s when it starts to get more blurred …I agree with Niamh, it’s a choice to act on something and in doing that it changes everything really, doesn’t it…and as a society we do find any harm/abuse/any act of violence etc some of the most abhorrent because it preys on the very most vulnerable and helpless…and that tends to be the prime thing/view more than anything else in society because it’s difficult for the human being to see ‘victim’ in someone who has committed a heinous act against a child …they’ve then crossed over into predator, rather than victim of something awful in their lives as well…

This 'blurring' is what interests me.

I suppose essentially I like to see the good in most people. I just have a more open mind. The predator can also be a victim. I don't say that to diminish anything. We do hear about cases whereby someone has been horrifically abused by their family who then goes on to abuse themselves.

Schizophrenia is another example, moving away from peodophillia. I was reading an article that summed it up perfectly and its heading was -

'I didn't kill my Mother, my schizophrenia did'.

[Niamh.]

What I mean by it's black and white when it comes to child protection is that it is on this topic specifically. If a paedophile rapes a child they should never again be allowed out in society

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by Ammi

@ThomasC

…this is an interesting article in terms of paedophilia …

https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/artic...9-54586689ae3c

and obviously it is a disorder that many don’t act on… so in itself is open to therapies …but when it is acted on in the sexual abuse/rape of a child then it becomes a criminal offence also so that’s when it starts to get more blurred …I agree with Niamh, it’s a choice to act on something and in doing that it changes everything really, doesn’t it…and as a society we do find any harm/abuse/any act of violence etc some of the most abhorrent because it preys on the very most vulnerable and helpless…and that tends to be the prime thing/view more than anything else in society because it’s difficult for the human being to see ‘victim’ in someone who has committed a heinous act against a child …they’ve then crossed over into predator, rather than victim of something awful in their lives as well…

Very interesting read.

The article raises what I raise about 'demonisation'.

Also, some have the strength to seek help, some don't. It's very easy to say they just shouldn't do it.

The article also highlights the lack of help staying the NHS are rarely going to treat it unless they have offended - which in itself is shocking

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

What I mean by it's black and white when it comes to child protection is that it is on this topic specifically. If a paedophile rapes a child they should never again be allowed out in society

I'm undecided on this.

I think there has to be stringent measures in place to reduce risk of reoffending.

Some will be too high risk to ever be let out no matter what mitigation is put in place