[Crimson Dynamo]

Why not do a Taylor Swift one as that will get lots of donations and they could do a Free Palestine one for the kids

[OnTheRight]

And let's not forget that £67,000 of our donations pays for the new Head of Diversity & Inclusion!
No more donations from me to the RBL.
"Totaljobs Sponsored Find the job that's right for you! X Head of Diversity and Inclusion Royal British Legion Trading Ltd 目 South East London £64,122to£67,437 to 4127067457/pranminuv £67, per annum, inclusive of Lond... RBL ROYAL BRITISH ROYALBRITISHLECION LEGION Apply ApplyNow Now totaljobs.com Looking for something new? Apply now 10 comments"

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Oh god who cares? If it gets more people donating to the cause at the heart of it, what’s the problem?

People are so annoying

Because it's unnecessary and deflects from the fact that lots of people from lots of backgrounds fought for thus country and still fight for this country, together. The fact that one group think they need their own, singular recognition and that idea is being pandered to by the Royal British Legion is insulting. And annoying.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Livia

Over 50,000 Jews fought for the UK in WW2. They don't need a separate poppy because they were a minority, they're included under the red poppy. As is every other minority group. There's a red ribbon to raise money and awareness for AIDS. Do we need a different colour according the the sufferers sexuality? No, we don't.

Completely agree

I definitely think there's an element of marketing going on aswell though.

[bots]

So what are people going to do, stop giving to the charity because there is an lgbt version? If that is the case, there is a more fundamental problem

[Liam-]

A charity that needs donations to continue helping the people they cater to, create a way to earn more money to help those people, bloody gays spending their money to help a charity

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Liam-

A charity that needs donations to continue helping the people they cater to, create a way to earn more money to help those people, bloody gays spending their money to help a charity

Or... They alienate their regular donors by demonstrating one group is more special and needs its own, individual poppy.

[OnTheRight]

Originally Posted by bots

So what are people going to do, stop giving to the charity because there is an lgbt version? If that is the case, there is a more fundamental problem

I stopped giving when I found out £67,000 is going to a head of Diversity person.

[BBXX]

I think some people should remember it was only in 2000 the ban of homosexuals serving in the Army was lifted. Before that - just 24 years ago - it was illegal to be in the Army if you were gay.

What this means is that there were many, many gay people who gave their life for their country despite not being free to love who they wanted to. Many lived in secret and broke the law in order to fight for their country. Many were sent to prison.

This, to me, is a harmless and small way of acknowledging just how ****ed up that is and paying respects to the many gay men and women who fought for the British Army and still do.

Aside from the meaning behind it... does anyone else find it quite ugly?

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by BBXX

does anyone else find it quite ugly?

hm, that seems to be "a thing" with rainbow designs, they're really prone to uglifying.

Like the version of the Pride flag which has the additional coloured triangles is hideous, but the standard rainbow version is fine.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by OnTheRight

I stopped giving when I found out £67,000 is going to a head of Diversity person.

Yep. Bin it

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

hm, that seems to be "a thing" with rainbow designs, they're really prone to uglifying.

Like the version of the Pride flag which has the additional coloured triangles is hideous, but the standard rainbow version is fine.

I agree - too many colours is always going to the reduce the aesthetic of something.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by BBXX

I think some people should remember it was only in 2000 the ban of homosexuals serving in the Army was lifted. Before that - just 24 years ago - it was illegal to be in the Army if you were gay.

What this means is that there were many, many gay people who gave their life for their country despite not being free to love who they wanted to. Many lived in secret and broke the law in order to fight for their country. Many were sent to prison.

This, to me, is a harmless and small way of acknowledging just how ****ed up that is and paying respects to the many gay men and women who fought for the British Army and still do.

Aside from the meaning behind it... does anyone else find it quite ugly?

Some people were killed outright and some suffered horrific wounds that were life changing. Some suffered mentally and continue to live a half life because what they saw and experienced changed their life irrevocably. Some leave the army and find it so hard to go back to ordinary life they end up on the streets. Being gay does not compound the suffering of those who've been in combat. There isn't a sliding scale of suffering according to your sexuality. The red poppy is for everyone who served regardless of age, ethnicity or sexual orientation. If gay organisations are concerned perhaps they can start their own organisation which caters only for one group.

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Livia

Some people were killed outright and some suffered horrific wounds that were life changing. Some suffered mentally and continue to live a half life because what they saw and experienced changed their life irrevocably. Some leave the army and find it so hard to go back to ordinary life they end up on the streets. Being gay does not compound the suffering of those who've been in combat. There isn't a sliding scale of suffering according to your sexuality. The red poppy is for everyone who served regardless of age, ethnicity or sexual orientation. If gay organisations are concerned perhaps they can start their own organisation which caters only for one group.

I know all that. My point was squarely concentrated on the fact it was illegal to be gay while in the Army and so many people hid that aspect of their lives in order to serve for the country, so there is a complexity to the situation that doesn't exist with any other demographic and this could simply to acknowledge that. I.E: yes, we banned you from joining us because we were discriminatory, and we appreciate your resilience in working for us despite our discrimination.

It's also worth noting this isn't the only variation of the poppy there is. There are purple poppies for animals killed in war and black poppies to commemorate Black British soldiers.

I personally don't see the big deal.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by BBXX

I know all that. My point was squarely concentrated on the fact it was illegal to be gay while in the Army and so many people hid that aspect of their lives in order to serve for the country, so there is a complexity to the situation that doesn't exist with any other demographic and this could simply to acknowledge that. I.E: yes, we banned you from joining us because we were discriminatory, and we appreciate your resilience in working for us despite our discrimination.

It's also worth noting this isn't the only variation of the poppy there is. There are purple poppies for animals killed in war and black poppies to commemorate Black British soldiers.

I personally don't see the big deal.

Neither the black nor the purple poppy has anything to do with the Royal British Legion. They are provided by separate organisations and, like I suggested previously, if an LGBT organisation wanted to launch their own exclusive poppy I would have no problem with that, so long as the procedes benefit ex-service personnel. The red poppy is for everyone, without excluding anyone. So I don't see why people would want the RBL to single them out and make them a special case. The first black man to join the Guards in the 1980s suffered horrendous racism. I never heard it suggested the British Legion give him a special poppy.

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Livia

Neither the black nor the purple poppy has anything to do with the Royal British Legion. They are provided by separate organisations and, like I suggested previously, if an LGBT organisation wanted to launch their own exclusive poppy I would have no problem with that, so long as the procedes benefit ex-service personnel. The red poppy is for everyone, without excluding anyone. So I don't see why people would want the RBL to single them out and make them a special case. The first black man to join the Guards in the 1980s suffered horrendous racism. I never heard it suggested the British Legion give him a special poppy.

While I don't see the LGBT poppy as a necessity, I can see why the RBL might want to offer a symbol of an apology of their previous discrimination as an organisation, that's all.

I don't see how creating a new, extra Poppy devalues the other one and therefore I personally don't see the issue either way. If it was replacing the standard poppy, well that's a different thing.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by BBXX

While I don't see the LGBT poppy as a necessity, I can see why the RBL might want to offer a symbol of an apology of their previous discrimination as an organisation, that's all.

I don't see how creating a new, extra Poppy devalues the other one and therefore I personally don't see the issue either way. If it was replacing the standard poppy, well that's a different thing.

A symbol of apology? To whom? Just LGBT people? How about women, who were excluded from many roles for years and had to leave immediately if they got pregnant? And black and other ethnic soldiers who were discriminated against by certain regiments? Singling out one group alienates those who put aside their differences to honour the all those who defend us.

Remembrance isn't about airing these grievances, it's about remembering those, of all backgrounds, religions, persuasions and other things that divide us, and acknowledging their sacrifice.

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Livia

A symbol of apology? To whom? Just LGBT people? How about women, who were excluded from many roles for years and had to leave immediately if they got pregnant? And black and other ethnic soldiers who were discriminated against by certain regiments? Singling out one group alienates those who put aside their differences to honour the all those who defend us.

Remembrance isn't about airing these grievances, it's about remembering those, of all backgrounds, religions, persuasions and other things that divide us, and acknowledging their sacrifice.

There has been over £7 million paid out to women who were automatically discharged upon getting pregnant, quite rightly so. I don't know about the discrimination other minorities were guilty of, and I don't know if there were legal persecutions against them but if there were, something should be put in place to repair that.

You make some good points and I do appreciate your opinion.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by OnTheRight

I stopped giving when I found out £67,000 is going to a head of Diversity person.

Diversity is important - when you see the names and pictures of the fallen, it's ridiculous how over-represented white men are among them. This needs to be retroactively fixed

[Livia]

Originally Posted by BBXX

There has been over £7 million paid out to women who were automatically discharged upon getting pregnant, quite rightly so. I don't know about the discrimination other minorities were guilty of, and I don't know if there were legal persecutions against them but if there were, something should be put in place to repair that.

You make some good points and I do appreciate your opinion.

Yes, you too. Good to chat this out with you.