[millyrose]

I don't think Ali's a man hater she just doesn't like chauvinist's which to be fair who does. But i do find her very devious and manipulative, she is also a bare face liar, she lied to Emma saying her and Lily wasn't talking about her when she clearly was.

[Adamw92]

Originally Posted by marcelloforthewin

I wish they was i am allowed to support and speak for a HM i feel strongly about when almost everyone else does is hate on him and moan about his sense of humour since when did the world become such a boring place that someone as miserable and humourless as Ali is deemed more popular

Of course you’re allowed just as I’m allowed to “hate” on him as you put it, plenty of people on here hate Ali but a scary amount of people on here find Marcello to have not done anything wrong so it’s rather balanced, don’t you think?

[marcelloforthewin]

Originally Posted by Adamw92

Of course you’re allowed just as I’m allowed to “hate” on him as you put it, plenty of people on here hate Ali but a scary amount of people on here find Marcello to have not done anything wrong so it’s rather balanced, don’t you think?

Fair Fair

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by millyrose

I don't think Ali's a man hater she just doesn't like chauvinist's which to be fair who does. But i do find her very devious and manipulative, she is also a bare face liar, she lied to Emma saying her and Lily wasn't talking about her when she clearly was.

Exactly...she is very calculating.

[GlitterUK]

Neck and neck on this at the moment, more even than I expected.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Lostie!

She's not a man hater though, that's just one of the many outlandish accusations thrown at her over the last six weeks.

Her four main targets throughout the series.

Khaled
Marcello
Sarah
Segun

Three out of four people that she didn't like or had issues with are men.

And I could say that Marcello being called a Misogynist is outlandish considering the two people that he hasn't liked in this series were Ali and Dean, one each.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Except she’s not that, you just don’t like strong women who don’t fawn over men just because they’re men

Where have I said that Liam?

In fact when have I ever said that over the years that you've seen me post on here Liam?

For god sake my favourite in BB13 was Deana, who would stand up for herself against anyone, and especially against Conor and Luke S.

The difference there is that Conor deserved to be disliked by Deana because he was horrible about her in a way that I've rarely ever seen on BB before or after.

Admittedly she got a bit extreme towards Luke S near the end of the series, but I did understand why she found his and Ashleigh's relationship to be fake.

And back to Ali, even if you want to justify her behaviour towards Marcello, what excuse can she have about Khaled and Segun?

Instead of just throwing out "Misogyny" claims at me like you've done twice this series Liam, can you actually come up with a reason why two largely harmless Housemates have been targeted by Ali? I mean she was friends with Lily who hammed up a wannabe Nikki Graham routine, yet Ali doesn't target her for being fake, but she threw/currently throwing out at Khaled & Segun.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Adamw92

With all due respect, that’s an awful ranking and it makes me sad

I'm judging on three different criteria.

1. Entertainment
2. Who actually seemed to enjoy the experience
3. Who has shown different sides to themselves, the good and the bad if you will.

To me nobody in that top six has ticked those boxes quite like Marcello and Nathan.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

Where have I said that Liam?

In fact when have I ever said that over the years that you've seen me post on here Liam?

For god sake my favourite in BB13 was Deana, who would stand up for herself against anyone, and especially against Conor and Luke S.

The difference there is that Conor deserved to be disliked by Deana because he was horrible about her in a way that I've rarely ever seen on BB before or after.

Admittedly she got a bit extreme towards Luke S near the end of the series, but I did understand why she found his and Ashleigh's relationship to be fake.

And back to Ali, even if you want to justify her behaviour towards Marcello, what excuse can she have about Khaled and Segun?

Instead of just throwing out "Misogyny" claims at me like you've done twice this series Liam, can you actually come up with a reason why two largely harmless Housemates have been targeted by Ali? I mean she was friends with Lily who hammed up a wannabe Nikki Graham routine, yet Ali doesn't target her for being fake, but she threw/currently throwing out at Khaled & Segun.

And just to add, I hope that you can respond without accusing me of not liking strong women or some other prejudice accusation.

I bit my tongue the first time that you did it this series, but you've actually pissed me off now.

Either debate like an actual adult, or don't bother.

I don't go and talk about Big Brother Housemates and say my opinions on them just to have baseless accusations thrown around just because I'm not kissing ass to Liam's favourite.

Honestly get a grip.
@Liam-

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

And just to add, I hope that you can respond without accusing me of not liking strong women or some other prejudice accusation.

I bit my tongue the first time that you did it this series, but you've actually pissed me off now.

Either debate like an actual adult, or don't bother.

I don't go and talk about Big Brother Housemates and say my opinions on them just to have baseless accusations thrown around just because I'm not kissing ass to Liam's favourite.

Honestly get a grip.
@Liam-

I like you Mock (and don’t think you hate strong women) but if you’re happy to throw baseless accusations at other people such as them being a misandrist and a man hater it does seem strange you are unwilling to be the subject of the same thing you are also the perpetrator of.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by BBXX

I like you Mock (and don’t think you hate strong women) but if you’re happy to throw baseless accusations at other people such as them being a misandrist and a man hater it does seem strange you are unwilling to be the subject of the same thing you are also the perpetrator of.

I am accusing someone that agreed to go on a TV Show of something that I believe that they've displayed in the house, just like every other member on here has done about the Housemates.

I at least have a legit reason based on who Ali has targeted in the house.

Where as Liam is throwing baseless accusations around about another Forum member, there is a huge difference in that with all due respect.

He has zero evidence to back his claim up, he is just upset because I am not worshipping at the altar of Ali.

I don't even dislike Ali, I can think that someone might have a prejudice and still think that they're overall a decent person.

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

I am accusing someone that agreed to go on a TV Show of something that I believe that they've displayed in the house, just like every other member on here has done about the Housemates.

That's fair, personally though I think anyone willing to go on a public forum (forum or social) and name-call people on a public forum (TV) should be willing to take it. If we're willing to risk the person we're calling names seeing what we've called them, we should at least be prepared to take that risk for ourselves.

There is also a difference between calling out things people have said and certain behaviour traits and labelling them with the 'ist' based on just a few things we've witnessed them say. And I say that on behalf of all HMs.

This is just a general opinion, and not one I want to level closely at you though Mock as generally I find you a really fair FM and I very much enjoy reading what you have to say about all HMs

On the point of Ali/Marcello. I think you're really simplifying the definition of Misogyny/Misandry by thinking it simply as who someone doesn't get along with people of the opposite gender. Misogyny/Misandry isn't really about that.

You're calling Ali a misandrist because she has clashed with men. Well... she also hasn't clashed with men. She didn't clash with Dean or Nathan or Izzaz. Moreover, I think there is a distinct difference between clashing with men and clashing with men bout their maleness. Ali has clashed with Marcello, Khaled and Segun, but the clashes have been totally unrelated to the fact they are men.

On the flip side, the accusations of Marcello's misogyny aren't linked with him clashing with a woman at all. They're based on things he has said and the subject and context about women and/or their womanhood, which have at times been derogatory or demeaning. Specific thoughts that are in line with how Misogynists think and the types of things they say.

The only time Ali has ever spoken about maleness is to discuss Toxic Masculinity, which as we've discussed in depth before isn't about maleness or men. Her critique hasn't been about men, it's been about certain negative behaviour traits that some men exhibit that is closely linked with them being men.

Ali's discussion with Hanah the other day about men being subject to body shaming and being taken advantage by women in a financial capacity absolutely to not align with the thoughts of a Misandrist.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by BBXX

That's fair, personally though I think anyone willing to go on a public forum (forum or social) and name-call people on a public forum (TV) should be willing to take it. If we're willing to risk the person we're calling names seeing what we've called them, we should at least be prepared to take that risk for ourselves.

There is also a difference between calling out things people have said and certain behaviour traits and labelling them with the 'ist' based on just a few things we've witnessed them say. And I say that on behalf of all HMs.

This is just a general opinion, and not one I want to level closely at you though Mock as generally I find you a really fair FM and I very much enjoy reading what you have to say about all HMs

On the point of Ali/Marcello. I think you're really simplifying the definition of Misogyny/Misandry by thinking it simply as who someone doesn't get along with people of the opposite gender. Misogyny/Misandry isn't really about that.

You're calling Ali a misandrist because she has clashed with men. Well... she also hasn't clashed with men. She didn't clash with Dean or Nathan or Izzaz. Moreover, I think there is a distinct difference between clashing with men and clashing with men bout their maleness. Ali has clashed with Marcello, Khaled and Segun, but the clashes have been totally unrelated to the fact they are men.

On the flip side, the accusations of Marcello's misogyny aren't linked with him clashing with a woman at all. They're based on things he has said and the subject and context about women and/or their womanhood, which have at times been derogatory or demeaning. Specific thoughts that are in line with how Misogynists think and the types of things they say.

The only time Ali has ever spoken about maleness is to discuss Toxic Masculinity, which as we've discussed in depth before isn't about maleness or men. Her critique hasn't been about men, it's been about certain negative behaviour traits that some men exhibit that is closely linked with them being men.

Ali's discussion with Hanah the other day about men being subject to body shaming and being taken advantage by women in a financial capacity absolutely to not align with the thoughts of a Misandrist.

If Ali sees my posts and objects to them, then that's fair enough as she is the one that is being discussed by me in a negative light on this particular thread.

I don't believe that a Forum member should be accusing another member of "not liking strong women" because I dare to think something negative about their favourite Big Brother Housemate, I would get it more if I was hating on every woman in the series, or every woman bar Rosie and Martha (who did seem to not really be very strong willed) but that has not been the case.

- Sarah was my favourite, and she weren't exactly shy with clashes against the men in the house.

- I really like Emma and find her to be one of the funniest Housemates of the series.

- I was probably the number one Daze and Martha defender on here, feeling that both of them were being harshly treated by the public.

- I never went in really harsh on BP like I really should've for being incredibly dull, like I have done to Thomas tbf. Yet Liam's never accused me of being Ableist because he also doesn't give a **** about Thomas, so it doesn't concern him what I think of Thomas, or what I think about anyone other than Ali.

- And I did soften towards Lily as the series went along.

- And Hanah has my favourite saying of the series. Admittedly I do have issues with Hanah away from that though.

For me I'm willing to address any issues that people might have with what I've actually posted, not make belief stuff that hasn't even been remotely said.

And thanks for the compliment BBXX, I have enjoyed your posts as well, and the debates that we've both had with each other throughout the series, I have honestly really enjoyed it.

And I do still like Liam's contribution to the Forum (I always have) but I do strongly dislike him posting stuff about me that isn't remotely true.

And with Marcello's comments, I get why they can be viewed as Misogynistic tbf, and who knows he might have issues in that area that he needs to sort out when he gets out of the house, but by and large I do think that he just likes to make very controversial jokes (like Sarah ironically) so I don't really think that he is that Misogynistic as some of his detractors are thinking.

Admittedly his reason for nominating Rosie makes me think that there might be something possibly there though, along with his love of Trump that makes me think that he holds some politically incorrect opinions about feminism at the very least, and Misogyny at the very worst, I don't believe that he has an Incel mindset or a sex offender though, like I know that some people on here have accused him of throughout the series.

And with Ali I do just find it interesting that most of her targets have been men, I can't attack John James during BB11 for constantly targeting women, but not when I feel like it is being done the other way.

I do honestly appreciate this debate with you though BBXX.

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by millyrose

I don't think Ali's a man hater she just doesn't like chauvinist's which to be fair who does. But i do find her very devious and manipulative, she is also a bare face liar, she lied to Emma saying her and Lily wasn't talking about her when she clearly was.

I haven’t been watching the series of late - as you probably know - BUT surely that is a frequently occurring scenario found in all our lives at work or in family gatherings or whatever ?

We all chat about other people to friends/colleagues and if the person in question asks you about it you would deny it … just to avoid embarrassment or aggravation just to stay on good terms with them ??

It’s not an example of someone being an untrustworthy, bare-faced liar imho


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