[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Quantum Boy

Meanwhile off to the west, you have some of the MAGA hat die-hards openly marching about Ohio with massive swastika flags.

Nothing to worry about there though eh. No issues at all with the Trump Right. Here to sort it all out and save us all

Fair point.

Just to add my two cents to this whole discussion, we're constantly told in western media that we're becoming "progressive" and "inclusive" yet I would argue that I have seen more hatred and prejudice over the last five years than I remembered back in say 2010.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Quantum Boy

If its happening in the US it'll be happening in the UK in two years. That is fairly standard. I'm not saying it's any better or worse I'm simply saying it's the exact same thing and it's given a free pass because "what about" Islamic issues.

Which by the way (Oliver) is what whataboutery ACTUALLY is. Refusal to look right because what about the left. Or vice versa. Look both ways before you cross or you're going to get hit by a truck. No? Extremism is extremism. The "Jews and Gays" have no more allies in red hats than they do in the communities being discussed in this thread.

And Jewish people are going to find out at some point that they have a lot of allies of convenience currently because of what's seen as a Jewish/Muslim conflict (and they like Muslims less).

At some point there will come a stark reminder of the fkn obvious. They don't actually like Jews either.

No body is giving the far right a free pass, where has that been said on this thread. I think most Jewish people are quite aware of who their allies are in the world, that is not the point here at all, the point is on our door step there are no go areas that were previously not an issue for Jews and Gays to visit, that is going backwards in Europe in anyones language, we dont need to wait to import anything from the USA I am afraid to say, you are telling Oliver to look both ways but you have your blinkers firmly on when it comes to the cultures we are importing, most of these people just want to get on with their lives but we cant ignore the elephant in the room that their cultures, beliefs and value are vastly different to those in the West and in the main they do not want to integrate and adopt western values, so we have to take that on the chin if we continue to welcome them into Europe, no point whining about it after the fact

[Crimson Dynamo]

5 nutjobs in Ohio march with 2 swaskita flags

no idea who they voted for or why

but that is somehow a counter argument for this?

desperate beyond belief

[Nicky91]

i mean some muslims hate jewish people

but we've also seen jewish people committing violent hate crimes against muslims



not like jewish people are solely the victims here



there are bad people on both sides, but there are also good people on both sides of course

[Nicky91]

in amsterdam, it wasn't just antisemitic violence against jewish people, but also some of the Maccabi fans who were abusing taxi drivers, or other provocative behaviour against locals


so what happened in amsterdam was just very sad and very embarrassing for us dutch towards the rest of the world


the amsterdam mayor Femke Halsema does not discriminate against either side, she wants to keep her city as very multicultural, diverse and trying to listen to everyone regardless of ethnicity, nationality or religion

[Nicky91]

also in our precious Sittard, also a very multicultural city nowadays, lots of peace and harmony here, compared to the bigger cities like Amsterdam, Rotterdam

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

best to say nothing if you don't say anything meaningful

no offense

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

best to say nothing if you don't say anything meaningful

no offense

Take your own advice.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

i mean some muslims hate jewish people

but we've also seen jewish people committing violent hate crimes against muslims



not like jewish people are solely the victims here



there are bad people on both sides, but there are also good people on both sides of course

Fair points Nicky.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

i mean some muslims hate jewish people

but we've also seen jewish people committing violent hate crimes against muslims



not like jewish people are solely the victims here



there are bad people on both sides, but there are also good people on both sides of course

I expect you feel the same about the Nazis, right. They weren't all Jew and gay haters. Some Jews and gays hated the Nazis so Jews and gays weren't solely the victims. Right?

[Livia]

What I'm seeing is Europe condoning-Semitic attacks and finding excuses to justify them and this thread makes me lose the will to fight it.

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Livia

I expect you feel the same about the Nazis, right. They weren't all Jew and gay haters. Some Jews and gays hated the Nazis so Jews and gays weren't solely the victims. Right?

ew no, **** the Nazis


i don't give a single **** about every single one of that pure evil scum

[Quantum Boy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

you have your blinkers firmly on when it comes to the cultures we are importing, most of these people just want to get on with their lives but we cant ignore the elephant in the room that their cultures, beliefs and value are vastly different to those in the West and in the main they do not want to integrate and adopt western values, so we have to take that on the chin if we continue to welcome them into Europe, no point whining about it after the fact

I don't, as is often the case I'd challenge you to find even one post suggesting that this is the case (oddly this never happens?) and I for the mostpart agree with the rest of what has been said there -- only with the caveat that I think these reasonable points are all too often used disingenuously by people who don't actually have rational concerns, but banal tribalist prejudice.

Originally Posted by Crimson Dynamo

no idea who they voted for or why

Don't be daft.

but that is somehow a counter argument for this?

It's not a counter-argument for anything as I'm not arguing against the original premise, I'm pointing out the hypocrisy as a comment that people SHOULD be concerned about this stuff as well, not to say that people shouldn't be worried about other things. There's undeniably huge issues with racism, homophobia and misogyny in immigrant communities. I just would like people to stop ignoring that there are huge problems with all of the same things coming from many other sources -- including the places they keep hooting about and celebrating.

[Black Dagger]

Me and Danny will butch it up when we arrive on Sunday thanks for the warning x