[Pigeon Lady]

…I’ve got a bit of free time so I think that I’ll start watching this now…

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Cherie Christmas

Did you finish this Niamh? any thoughts?

Ok just finished it

Spoiler:

Definitely don't think that the family were involved, I see at the end they decided that the DNA might have been contaminated. I honestly think it was that guy John Mark Kerr. He seems like the type that would write a letter like the ransom note was too, rambling and stupid

[Pigeon Lady]

Spoiler:

…wow at John Ramsey’s older daughter being killed in,a car accident as well…that’s something I hadn’t known, it’s terribly tragic how much loss the family have had in their lives…

[Cherie Christmas]

Originally Posted by ChristmasNeeve

Ok just finished it

Spoiler:

Definitely don't think that the family were involved, I see at the end they decided that the DNA might have been contaminated. I honestly think it was that guy John Mark Kerr. He seems like the type that would write a letter like the ransom note was too, rambling and stupid

Spoiler:

I agree, the manner in which she was killed would hopefully rule out family members and also why would they not move the body as the house would be the first place to be searched, John Mark Kerr knew aspects of the case that were never made public but it appears the police were so keen on sticking to the theory that it was the family did this that they ignored it, interesting as well that both cases resulted in compensation to the family and to Burke

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Cherie Christmas

Spoiler:

I agree, the manner in which she was killed would hopefully rule out family members and also why would they not move the body as the house would be the first place to be searched, John Mark Kerr knew aspects of the case that were never made public but it appears the police were so keen on sticking to the theory that it was the family did this that they ignored it, interesting as well that both cases resulted in compensation to the family and to Burke

Spoiler:

Exactly, the theory about Burke hitting her and causing the head injury and then her parents doing the rest to cover it up is just such an outlandish and macabre stretch. That they would sexually abuse and torture her to hide the fact her brother hit her is just so grotesque and that people believed it as well with literally no evidence is crazy. I'm not saying it's beyond the realms of possibility to say they might have covered for their son but I mean, say she fell down the stairs or something, there would have been zero need for all the rest. John Marks confession and the details he went into sounds more like the kind of sick mind that would do that to a 6 year old.
I feel so bad Patsy died so young as well with nothing resolved and all that horriblness hanging over their lives

[ChristmasNeeve]

I wonder if they ever

Spoiler:

Took a sample of John Mark Kerrs hand writing to compare to the ransom note?

[Pigeon Lady]

Spoiler:

…The special report televised ‘Trial of the Ramsey’s’ was outrageous and completely trivialising the brutal murder of a child for what felt like entertainment/sensationalist value…and that they intimated in that, that JonBenet was being exploited and sexualised, while if that was what they felt, they were then all doubling down on that…

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Pigeon Lady

Spoiler:

…The special report televised ‘Trial of the Ramsey’s’ was outrageous and completely trivialising the brutal murder of a child for what felt like entertainment/sensationalist value…and that they intimated in that, that JonBenet was being exploited and sexualised, while if that was what they felt, they were then all doubling down on that…

Spoiler:

The 90's and even early 00's were awful for those kind of talk shows. I'm not a fan of those pageant's for children at all I might add but I don't think Patsy did it with bad intent, she was involved in that world herself and probably just saw it as sharing her interest. I do think that unfortunately for JonBenét it may have been what made her noticed by the sick person who did what he did to her though

[ChristmasNeeve]

of course now I'm falling back down the rabbit hole of this case once again, I had forgotten about

Spoiler:

the pineapple in JonBenét's stomach that they think she must have eaten around 11pm-12am which the parents say they never gave her however they found a bowl with Pineapple and milk on the counter with only Burkes finger prints, I think this was where the Burke killed her theory stemmed from, that he made himself the snack after his parents went to bed (they got home around 10pm) JonBenét got up and grabbed some from his bowl, he gets annoyed and hits her causing the head injury and then the parents or just Patsy cover it up

[Alf]

Originally Posted by ChristmasNeeve

I hadn't heard that one before

That's because you don't drive down the correct lane on the conspiracy theory super highway.

You need to change lanes from time to time. I know you've got an interest in a good conspiracy theory.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Alf

That's because you don't drive down the correct lane on the conspiracy theory super highway.

You need to change lanes from time to time. I know you've got an interest in a good conspiracy theory.

I won't lie Alfred I do love a good conspiracy from time to time

[Pigeon Lady]

Originally Posted by ChristmasNeeve

Spoiler:

The 90's and even early 00's were awful for those kind of talk shows. I'm not a fan of those pageant's for children at all I might add but I don't think Patsy did it with bad intent, she was involved in that world herself and probably just saw it as sharing her interest. I do think that unfortunately for JonBenét it may have been what made her noticed by the sick person who did what he did to her though

Spoiler:

…no, child pageantry is something that I’m uncomfortable with as well…but it was a popular thing in the US at that time../…I’m not sure if that’s still the case in present times..so the leap from child pageantry and any sexualisation involved in that and sexually abusive parents/father was just bizarre…also that lady who was involved in the TV Trial thing…saying that JonBenet was ‘masterbating with the saxophone’…when she was dancing a rhythm and imitating playing a saxophone…it’s just incredible how much the parents were being implicated on really fabricated stuff and judgement of others…I do agree about Patsy, I think her intent was good…JonBenet possibly wanted to be a ‘beauty queen’ like her mom had been when she was younger and after Patsy’s aggressive cancer….?…she obviously didn’t know if she would see her daughter grow up so I think that was a deciding factor, possibly…that she was able to make that ‘beauty queen’ journey now with her daughter…ironically and tragically, she was correct…she never got to see JonBenet grow into adulthood…but not for the reason she would have thought and ironically also…as you say…that decision for JonBenet to take part in pageantry may have been something that led to her brutal death…

[Alf]

Originally Posted by ChristmasNeeve

I won't lie Alfred I do love a good conspiracy from time to time

You should be ashamed that I've took over you as Tibbs number 1 conspiracy theorist.

And I don't plan on relinquishing my title.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Pigeon Lady

Spoiler:

…no, child pageantry is something that I’m uncomfortable with as well…but it was a popular thing in the US at that time../…I’m not sure if that’s still the case in present times..so the leap from child pageantry and any sexualisation involved in that and sexually abusive parents/father was just bizarre…also that lady who was involved in the TV Trial thing…saying that JonBenet was ‘masterbating with the saxophone’…when she was dancing a rhythm and imitating playing a saxophone…it’s just incredible how much the parents were being implicated on really fabricated stuff and judgement of others…I do agree about Patsy, I think her intent was good…JonBenet possibly wanted to be a ‘beauty queen’ like her mom had been when she was younger and after Patsy’s aggressive cancer….?…she obviously didn’t know if she would see her daughter grow up so I think that was a deciding factor, possibly…that she was able to make that ‘beauty queen’ journey now with her daughter…ironically and tragically, she was correct…she never got to see JonBenet grow into adulthood…but not for the reason she would have thought and ironically also…as you say…that decision for JonBenet to take part in pageantry may have been something that led to her brutal death…

Spoiler:

Oh yeah that bit about the saxophone was absolutely ridiculous, honestly said more to me about that woman's mind than anything else

Originally Posted by Alf

You should be ashamed that I've took over you as Tibbs number 1 conspiracy theorist.

And I don't plan on relinquishing my tite.

That's ok, Alf, I enjoy reading yours

[Vicky.]

Just finished this..idk what to think as it seemed biased which I guess all shows are. Now rewatching the CBS one which may have been biased the opposite way!

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Just finished this..idk what to think as it seemed biased which I guess all shows are. Now rewatching the CBS one which may have been biased the opposite way!

Yeah I think the CBS one focused mainly on the Burke theory from what I've read

[Pigeon Lady]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Just finished this..idk what to think as it seemed biased which I guess all shows are. Now rewatching the CBS one which may have been biased the opposite way!

…same as you really, Vicky…

Spoiler:

…and aghhhhhhhh, it being revealed so close to the end that the DNA might have been pointless evidence anyway/might have been in some way contaminated etc….

… but really, I don’t know what to think …

Spoiler:

…and I didn’t understand how they were still speculating that her brother had hit over the head with the torchlight for taking some of his cereal and accidentally killed her… when it was already established that she was alive when the paint brush garrotte was used…John Mark Karr is still the most likely suspect, I feel…if the DNA wasn’t accurate and his could have matched…because I don’t know how he would have known some details if he didn’t kill her…

[Pigeon Lady]

…one thing that I forgot to say…

Spoiler:

…the ransom note and the ransom itself are surely very significant in leaning toward the killer to be someone who was very well known to the Ramsey’s…as in a relative or very close friend…?…$118,000 was the exact sum of John Ramsey’s Christmas bonus and an ‘irregular amount’ for a ransom demand…so that has to surely have significance in someone who knew that’s what the Christmas bonus was…it’s a very personal thing to tell someone also…

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Pigeon Lady

…one thing that I forgot to say…

Spoiler:

…the ransom note and the ransom itself are surely very significant in leaning toward the killer to be someone who was very well known to the Ramsey’s…as in a relative or very close friend…?…$118,000 was the exact sum of John Ramsey’s Christmas bonus and an ‘irregular amount’ for a ransom demand…so that has to surely have significance in someone who knew that’s what the Christmas bonus was…it’s a very personal thing to tell someone also…

Yes or.....

Spoiler:

If it was a paedophile intruder who went into the house while they were out that day and waited until they came home that evening they could have maybe seen some paper work, statement or something in the house showing that, maybe in Johns office? I presume he had an office in that massive house

[Santa's NaughtiNess]

Presumably

Spoiler:

the killer got in from the basement. One of the windows was open

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Santa's NaughtiNess

Presumably

Spoiler:

the killer got in from the basement. One of the windows was open

Spoiler:

There seems to be a lot of conflicting "evidence" on that basement window. Some people claim it was proved impossible for someone to have been able to get in and out of that window however in the Netflix show it clearly shows Detective Smit easily climbing in and out that way (and he wasn't a young man) then people say that dust around the area proves it was staged but then others say there was a muddy footprint proving it was genuinely used. I was reading up on more suspects actually and there was one guy who I believe had some sort of ongoing dispute with the ramseys over property and they had matched his footprint with one found in the basement, he later committed suicide which was odd. This guy here :

Michael Helgoth
An electrician in the area, Helgoth owned a pair of Hi-Tec boots that appeared to match a print left at the crime scene. He also owned a stun gun and detectives determined that JonBenét’s broken body showed marks from a similar device.

Helgoth also had a potential motive: he was embroiled in a property dispute with the Ramseys at the time. A private investigator hired by the Ramseys seemed to imply that authorities should focus on Helgoth.

The mystery deepened in 1997, when authorities said that they were closing in on a suspect. Two days later, Helgoth committed suicide, leading many to believe that he killed himself because charges were imminent.

But authorities told The Post that Helgoth was never a serious suspect, and his DNA did not match any that was collected at the murder scene.

https://nypost.com/2024/12/08/us-new...-investigated/

[Pigeon Lady]

Originally Posted by ChristmasNeeve

Yes or.....

Spoiler:

If it was a paedophile intruder who went into the house while they were out that day and waited until they came home that evening they could have maybe seen some paper work, statement or something in the house showing that, maybe in Johns office? I presume he had an office in that massive house

Spoiler:

…yeah that’s true, the killer could have seen some paperwork…but I still feel bugged by the ransom note…I mean, it was a huge long note to write with a lot of detail…like …if you go to the police, she’ll be beheaded or whatever the wording was…and yet her body was left right there and could have been found in moments of a pointless ransom note being left…and yeah, exactly for the amount of the Christmas bonus…if it was an ‘attempted kidnap’ that went wrong, which I don’t feel is very believable with what he did to JonBenet…then he would surely have just stun gunned her and took her, taking moments to be in and out and on the way to get his ransom demand, possibly….then ransom note just doesn’t fit, does it…

[Pigeon Lady]

Originally Posted by Santa's NaughtiNess

Presumably

Spoiler:

the killer got in from the basement. One of the windows was open

Spoiler:

…one of the windows was broken, I think…that was something that had been done previously and not repaired…

[Pigeon Lady]

Originally Posted by ChristmasNeeve

Spoiler:

There seems to be a lot of conflicting "evidence" on that basement window. Some people claim it was proved impossible for someone to have been able to get in and out of that window however in the Netflix show it clearly shows Detective Smit easily climbing in and out that way (and he wasn't a young man) then people say that dust around the area proves it was staged but then others say there was a muddy footprint proving it was genuinely used. I was reading up on more suspects actually and there was one guy who I believe had some sort of ongoing dispute with the ramseys over property and they had matched his footprint with one found in the basement, he later committed suicide which was odd. This guy here :

Michael Helgoth
An electrician in the area, Helgoth owned a pair of Hi-Tec boots that appeared to match a print left at the crime scene. He also owned a stun gun and detectives determined that JonBenét’s broken body showed marks from a similar device.

Helgoth also had a potential motive: he was embroiled in a property dispute with the Ramseys at the time. A private investigator hired by the Ramseys seemed to imply that authorities should focus on Helgoth.

The mystery deepened in 1997, when authorities said that they were closing in on a suspect. Two days later, Helgoth committed suicide, leading many to believe that he killed himself because charges were imminent.

But authorities told The Post that Helgoth was never a serious suspect, and his DNA did not match any that was collected at the murder scene.

https://nypost.com/2024/12/08/us-new...-investigated/

Spoiler:

…any DNA evidence being ruled out seems to be very unreliable ruling out, doesn’t it…