[arista]

[Sticks]

The first three letters of Truth are in Trump

Truth hurts doesn't it Heir Zelensky

Zelensky is and always has been a war criminal here because he chose his ego over what had to be done, accept that the Ukraine is just a province of Mother Russia.

Saying it is independent is equivalent to saying that Arista is the King of Jupiter and I am the King of Saturn.

[arista]

Russia has Lost over 8,000 Troops
in Fighting Ukraine.

He needs to end his invasion.

Ref:Former MI6 Commander
speaking on Newsnight BBC2HD

[Alf]

It's all about the money. Where is the money?

[Alf]

Who thinks Donald and Elon are being fascist for simply wanting to know where the money has gone?

That money does afterall belong to the people whom President Trump represents

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

Originally Posted by Alf

It's all about the money. Where is the money?

True where is the money and why does he keep asking for more but does it change the fact that Russia is the invader?

[Oliver_W]

The USA held elections through all crises, including world wars. So from an American perspective, one can see why it might appear a certain way.

[Quantum Boy]

Trump's version of peace negotiation boils down to;

If you're a kid in school being bullied by a bigger kid, and you want to stop him beating you up, you should simply give him half of your lunch money each morning and hope he doesn't want the rest before lunch time.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Quantum Boy

Trump's version of peace negotiation boils down to;

If you're a kid in school being bullied by a bigger kid, and you want to stop him beating you up, you should simply give him half of your lunch money each morning and hope he doesn't want the rest before lunch time.

That's how it's looking at present.
Despicable.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

The USA held elections through all crises, including world wars. So from an American perspective, one can see why it might appear a certain way.

The USA was involved in WW1 & 2 for 2 years and 3 years respectively. Kind of mid-term wars.

What about Putins elections? Any idea why the USA wouldn't see that farce a certain way?

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Alf

Who thinks Donald and Elon are being fascist for simply wanting to know where the money has gone?

That money does afterall belong to the people whom President Trump represents

Would be good to see the money trail, the US can clearly provide evidence that 177 billion was sent surely? Unless it was all handed over in brown envelopes

Not really taking the word of a country that insists Ukraine started the war...

[Livia]

The USA was the only country to come out of WW2 in profit. Of course they want the money back they sent to Ukraine.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Livia

The USA was involved in WW1 & 2 for 2 years and 3 years respectively. Kind of mid-term wars.

What about Putins elections? Any idea why the USA wouldn't see that farce a certain way?

I'd have to see what Trump said before I commented on it .

I'm not even supporting him or his words, just sayin' is all.

[Quantum Boy]

The isolationism is going to fk the US military as well; that's what I don't understand. The reason they're able to fund the best (as in, most advanced) military in the world is because there's so much spending on R&D... and they're able to do that, because they sell a tonne of what they develop to the rest of NATO and other US allies. If the US burns those bridges and other NATO nations start doing all of our R&D "in house", so to speak, the US won't be able to keep up the same pace of funding ... it's all madness. The have no one else to sell to. They're not going to sell their best tech to non-western-allied large economies because they don't want them to have it, that's sort of the whole point.

It's utterly insane how quickly we've reached the point where the US as we know it could legitimately fall. At this point I feel that the whole house of cards comes down to whether or not the constitution, or rather, the US population's traditionally strong belief in the constitution, holds up under this pressure. It still might but this is their biggest test since the Civil War.

If Donlon Trusk is successful in ripping it to shreds - which is at this point a clear intention - I think the US is in real trouble. Like "fall of the soviet union, states trying to break away entirely" levels of trouble.

[Quantum Boy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Would be good to see the money trail, the US can clearly provide evidence that 177 billion was sent surely? Unless it was all handed over in brown envelopes

Not really taking the word of a country that insists Ukraine started the war...

Most of the "billions" is in military equipment, and most of the military equipment they were sending was older stuff they had stockpiled and needed to "spring clean" anyway. I mean it makes sense that it's what they would send; slightly-outdated US military equipment is still much newer than the VAST majority of active Russian military stuff (half of which is pretty ancient) BUT... it's a bit of a sly move for them to price that stuff in USD$ terms as though they actually handed that out in cash. It's stuff that was sitting in warehouses gathering dust, not liquid financials.

[Oliver_W]

Are people taking issue with the fact that Russia has been invited to the table at all, or that they don't trust Trump to do it?

As someone said on tv this morning, billions have been "spent" to support Ukraine, and all that's been achieved is the loss of their land, or at best holding the status quo.

[Quantum Boy]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Are people taking issue with the fact that Russia has been invited to the table at all, or that they don't trust Trump to do it?

As someone said on tv this morning, billions have been "spent" to support Ukraine, and all that's been achieved is the loss of their land, or at best holding the status quo.

At this point Trump has openly been aggressively critical of Ukraine and also clearly disclosed that the US has competing interests; Trump/The US now CANNOT reasonably be a large part of any impartial peace talks. He should have kept his mouth shut but he can't help himself when he's feeling "challenged".

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Are people taking issue with the fact that Russia has been invited to the table at all, or that they don't trust Trump to do it?

As someone said on tv this morning, billions have been "spent" to support Ukraine, and all that's been achieved is the loss of their land, or at best holding the status quo.

I have issues with no representative of the invaded country being invited.

War is expensive. I'd be interested to know how much Russia has spent.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Quantum Boy

At this point Trump has openly been aggressively critical of Ukraine and also clearly disclosed that the US has competing interests; Trump/The US now CANNOT reasonably be a large part of any impartial peace talks. He should have kept his mouth shut but he can't help himself when he's feeling "challenged".

What are the USA's competing interests?

(Not being facetious, there's been so much "noise" I've lost track)

[Quantum Boy]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

What are the USA's competing interests?

(Not being facetious, there's been so much "noise" I've lost track)

Declared: Trump claims that Ukraine owes them $$$ and has now also claimed (straight up lied) that Ukraine was the initial aggressor in the war.

Undeclared: Anyone with any sense at this point has to strongly suspect that Trump has been somewhat in bed with Putin for years.

[bots]

The amount spent giving lethal aid to ukraine is pretty much nonesense from the get go. To give an example. The storm shadow missiles from the uk that the press were drooling about were from a stockpile manufactured 50 years ago. We don't give new tech to countries, because that warns the enemy what we have. When we replenish those stocks, it is with newer tech, but not only that, the missiles are largely manufactured in the UK, so the replacements are made with UK jobs and feeding the UK economy. The same is true for america only magnified 100 times


The Patriot defence missile systems were first used for that purpose by Israel during the first gulf war, which was a long time ago

[arista]

[arista]

[arista]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-election.html

[Quantum Boy]

Originally Posted by bots

The amount spent giving lethal aid to ukraine is pretty much nonesense from the get go. To give an example. The storm shadow missiles from the uk that the press were drooling about were from a stockpile manufactured 50 years ago. We don't give new tech to countries, because that warns the enemy what we have. When we replenish those stocks, it is with newer tech, but not only that, the missiles are largely manufactured in the UK, so the replacements are made with UK jobs and feeding the UK economy. The same is true for america only magnified 100 times


The Patriot defence missile systems were first used for that purpose by Israel during the first gulf war, which was a long time ago

Exactly, the war economy is huge ... and the conveyor belt is clear in terms of who gets what. Not only that but they need to clear out those old munitions and equipment to make room for the newer stuff coming out of development - and it would cost a fortune to dispose of any of it. It would be cheaper to give it away for free a lot of the time (and sometimes they do just that) than to scrap it ... but the really insane thing is ... they're often getting the best of both worlds; people are paying to take it away.

It's like when you sell an old desk on Facebook Marketplace for £10 and say "sorry can't deliver" when you were getting rid of it anyway. So instead of paying £30 for a bulky uplift... you have someone take it away, free of charge, and they actually GIVE you a tenner.