[Locke.]

How tiring is this?

It is happening on this forum, on BOTS, and even by the housemates early on in the series. Even Rylan, a host, keeps bringing it up like it's a negative thing to have watched the show that are paying him.

It's a very weird thing to keep bringing up just because he is a self proclaimed 'super fan'. Most of us posting on here (and I'm guessing the large majority of the BOTS audience) have watched most, if not all, of the seasons of the show, does that mean we'd all be playing a game if we went in too? Knowledge of past seasons of the show makes no difference to how you would act in there, besides the obvious.

"But he said in his VT he'd throw his friends under the bus to stay in!!!" He hasn't done it though, has he? He has the exact same friends in there now that he did at the start and the finale is only a week and a half away. "He did!!!! He didn't vote for Isabelle in that one task!" Okay, lets assume for a moment that he purposely didn't vote for Isabelle so she'd face eviction. He knew she was up against Simone, ANYBODY that has watched the show before would know that people like Simone would not be liked by viewers, nevermind someone that has watched every season (as we're so often reminded). And there was really no way to predict who every other person in there would vote for, besides from knowing none would vote for Sue.

The only gameplaying I think he can be legitimately accused of is playing a big part in orchestrating the divide. And that divide lead to the season being entertaining, full of arguments, and another fight night. So well done to him on that I say.

People are free to make up their own minds on whether they like him as a housemate or not based on what they see on the show, but picking apart every single action somebody makes to call them out as a gameplayer is just kinda weird.

[joeysteele]

Really great post Locke.

Says it all really,I agree.

[Amy Jade]

I agree with a lot of points you made but I can't agree over the Issy thing. I think Raph made a mistake there and I still have a slight wonder if it could have been game play.

Now you say as a fan Raph knows Simone would be hated. Not true, the last few years has seen antagonists win. Now what Raph did know is that Isabelle had loud boos the week Savannah went, could he have been trying to get Issy up to help Chanelle? We don't know it's all speculation but at least he's being talked about.

Keiran and Tom are dead weight.

[Locke.]

Originally Posted by Amy Jade

I agree with a lot of points you made but I can't agree over the Issy thing. I think Raph made a mistake there and I still have a slight wonder if it could have been game play.

Now you say as a fan Raph knows Simone would be hated. Not true, the last few years has seen antagonists win. Now what Raph did know is that Isabelle had loud boos the week Savannah went, could he have been trying to get Issy up to help Chanelle? We don't know it's all speculation but at least he's being talked about.

Keiran and Tom are dead weight.

I agree that it was a mistake and it did backfire hugely, he should have voted for her. Even more so because Sue ended up facing eviction and going anyway. But I don't believe he stood behind that buzzer and thought "I'm purposely going to get Isabelle to face eviction here". It's just not in his character from what we've seen in the house or on the forum.

[Amy Jade]

Originally Posted by Locke.

I agree that it was a mistake and it did backfire hugely, he should have voted for her. Even more so because Sue ended up facing eviction and going anyway. But I don't believe he stood behind that buzzer and thought "I'm purposely going to get Isabelle to face eviction here". It's just not in his character from what we've seen in the house or on the forum.

I played E10 with him and I think any of Tom, DTM and Lucas will say he was very manipulative during that game. He is a nice guy but I do think he is an opportunist and if it came a time he could get someone out to better his chances on the show he would take it.

I do believe he is loyal to Chanelle though.

[Beso]

Joe caused the divide...raph just named.it.

Sorry for nit.picking at a self proclaimed gameplayerd game.
Raph hadnt had to throw a friend under a bus yet but when the closest thing to it came up he did kinda rub salt into the wounds of issy so i can assume he would tosd them if he needed to.

[Locke.]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Joe caused the divide...raph just named.it.

Can't really remember to be honest, I just remember Raph talking about it as early as Day 2/3 in the diary room and most people on here saying that they hadn't noticed any kind of divide yet.

[iRyan]

I think he's just very self-conscious about how he's coming across, both to the public and the people in the house which makes people question how real he's being. In a sense, yes, it is gameplaying. But everyone in there is playing the same game, just in different ways, and some more visibly than others. It is impossible to be in that house and be your "true self". There will always be that awareness of the cameras and that you're being watched and judged by an audience, and there will always be heightened self-consciousness about what the others in the house are thinking and saying about you. Most people have to "gameplay" in order to cope.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Locke.

Can't really remember to be honest, I just remember Raph talking about it as early as Day 2/3 in the diary room and most people on here saying that they hadn't noticed any kind of divide yet.

Oh right, you cant remember but can claim raph set up the divide making the show more interesting in the process...

[Locke.]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Oh right, you cant remember but can claim raph set up the divide making the show more interesting in the process...

Did Joe create the divide sooner than day 2?

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by iRyan

I think he's just very self-conscious about how he's coming across, both to the public and the people in the house which makes people question how real he's being. In a sense, yes, it is gameplaying. But everyone in there is playing the same game, just in different ways, and some more visibly than others. It is impossible to be in that house and be your "true self". There will always be that awareness of the cameras and that you're being watched and judged by an audience, and there will always be heightened self-consciousness about what the others in the house are thinking and saying about you. Most people have to "gameplay" in order to cope.

Exactly right.

The vast number of former housemates and CBB housemates who say once out,you never really realise what it's like in there until you are in.

Any planning before going in,goes mostly out the window, you need to gauge how to avoid being nominated too,the whole process needs to be learned anew.

They are all doing that,singling one out is really petty and ridiculous.

For me 3 things can and should be avoided or seen as the real blatant attention kind of gameplaying.

The really overblown arguments, guaranteed to be shown hence airtime.
Then the hysterical tantrums and runs to the diary room.
Andrew is providing those recently.
The inevitable but tedious showmances too,every series seems to develop one.
With all from presenters,to bbbots and highlights taken up with such showmances.

Raph has engaged in none of those things,that is why I like him as a housemate.
Others obviously don't but singling him out as the gameplayers and jumping on every tiny thing he does,is to me both unfair and very petty indeed.
Especially while turning a blind eye to all the others.

You'd have to re-plan and adjust in the house it must take over you completely.
Everyone needs to think how best to play this and the end result,as has been the case with many on BB and CBB, probably ends up being very different from what's said in VTs.

[Vladimir]

I agree 100%. Literally every Raph's action is seen as game playing and it's annoying.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Locke.

Did Joe create the divide sooner than day 2?

Yes.

[Locke.]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Yes.

I doubt it very much, but I can't be bothered going back to check so, if you say so!

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Locke.

I doubt it very much, but I can't be bothered going back to check so, if you say so!

Just sayin..and i said it.

[Beso]

Hey locke just check any clique threads...raph fans claim joe started the clique when it was seen as negative...i have seen a few like you who are.saying the cljque has been good and of course that means that ralph created.

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Hey locke just check any clique threads...raph fans claim joe started the clique when it was seen as negative...i have seen a few like you who are.saying the cljque has been good and of course that means that ralph created.

Charlotte started the clique, cause the popular gang are more her sort of crowd

[Locke.]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Hey locke just check any clique threads...raph fans claim joe started the clique when it was seen as negative...i have seen a few like you who are.saying the cljque has been good and of course that means that ralph created.

I think the divide made for good entertainment regardless of who created it. I actually liked Joe as a housemate, he was good value for the most part.

[jyunga]

lol @ locke defending raph. Any other season you'd be chewing out someone like Raph for being dull if it wasn't that he posts on here.

[Locke.]

Originally Posted by jyunga

lol @ locke defending raph. Any other season you'd be chewing out someone like Raph for being dull if it wasn't that he posts on here.

Mo BB9 & Luke S are some of my favourite housemates of all time, I don't hate on the supposed dull housemates if I like them as people

[Littlegreen]

Careful Locke threads like these get reported as "baiting".

But you are 100% spot on, all I'm taking from it is he must be doing something right if he has so many people second-guessing his actions and creating so much discussion.

- and the excuse that "oh you know him from here that's why you like him" I was one who actually had no idea he was a member and I'd argue I was one of his stealthiest supporters.

[Mazziestarred]

but picking apart every single action somebody makes to call them out as a gameplayer is just kinda weird.

Isn't that the name of the game, and why we all watch though. At the end of the day, BB is a social experiment and why would it be aired if it wasn't so that we'd discuss why the HGs do what they do?

As someone that has posted elsewhere about Raph's actions, I'll say that it's more interesting to try to make sense of his actions over the Kaylieghs, Toms and Sams of BB, so that's why you don't see game playing posts about them. Theirs is a standard c5 game we've seen the past few seasons i.e. get ****faced, 'be pretty', say you represent so and so area of the UK, all in hopes of landing a paid story or reality gig for yourself after. *cough*Lotan*cough*. And tbf half the BOTs panel would be calling themselves out if they were to critique it, looking at the likes of Steph and Lateysha for this one.

I'm not from the UK so this is an outside observation - but it seems viewers are fed up with watching showmances and z-listers on the civilian series because the spirit of the show is diminished. It's killing the BBUS format too.

Then there's Raph, a self declared superfan who's likely more plugged into what viewers want simply by watching. This kind of knowledge coupled with inherent self awareness help your game and if you're smart you'll use it to navigate the house. Yet people call out game player, both inside & outside, as if it's an insult and are most weary when it comes from so called intelligent housemates like BB17 Andy.

I'm new to the forum so still not used to keeping my long-winded posts short. My point is Raph≠bad housemate for being a game player, they all are. He can and shld be the biggest game player to get to the prize money, fine by me. I think him picking Sue was to show he backed an underdog outcast from the house. In the past viewers like when you stand behind such HMs, but it was a misread in that he did it at the expense of his friend, and a well liked one like Issy at that. BUT it's all good since at the end of the day I also believe he's a genuine nice person (or human bean for the BB19 watchers out there).

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Locke.

I agree that it was a mistake and it did backfire hugely, he should have voted for her. Even more so because Sue ended up facing eviction and going anyway. But I don't believe he stood behind that buzzer and thought "I'm purposely going to get Isabelle to face eviction here". It's just not in his character from what we've seen in the house or on the forum.

Yeah I don't think so either, he seemed to like Sue and get on with her alot

[Crimson Dynamo]

Its the twins who have banged on about gameplaying all series whilst, you've guessed it gameplaying all series

What we should be hammering Raph about is how his VT is the opposite of what he did and for a so called "superfan" he has provided ZERO entertainment and just played the role of house bitch to any arsey woman he comes across