[Jack_]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

since we don';t have the death penalty in this Country.

And rightly so.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Jack_

And rightly so.

While I defend your right to hold that view and I used to myself until recently.
What on earth though could this 94 year old do to defend herself at all, possibly it seems against 2 much younger people too.

They are not people who can do this to a frail 94 year old, maybe the lady doesn't have a great deal of time left as to life, it's actually a wonder she has survived this barbaric attack on her.

Those who did it though will firstly not get life sentences anyway,unless the lady loses her life,also they will have the rest of their lives,still some with freedom to come as well.

It is hardly any wonder that more and more people would advocate bringing back capital punishment for 'some' crimes with very strict criteria as to it, however I would dare bet that in a refendum on this issue would get at least 70% to 80% support for it.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

scum like this should be hanging from street lights

Yeah, string 'em up, string 'em all up .....

[Kizzy]

The advances in forensic science and other methods of detection such as CCTV and such can in some cases almost 100% prove guilt...But I guess there is always the worry there would be an error?..If everything was bullet pointed (soz for pun) gunman captured on CCTV clearly, DNA at scene and a full and signed confession...Then maybe yes, the death penalty could be an option.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by kizzy

The advances in forensic science and other methods of detection such as CCTV and such can in some cases almost 100% prove guilt...But I guess there is always the worry there would be an error?..If everything was bullet pointed (soz for pun) gunman captured on CCTV clearly, DNA at scene and a full and signed confession...Then maybe yes, the death penalty could be an option.

I think you raise great points,I always had the fear of an innocent life being lost due to capital punishment too.

I am now though, really fed up of the horrible crimes some individuals commit against the real weakest and mostly most vulnerable in society.So much so that I have come round to agreeing to capital punishment being again at the very least an option in certain crimes with extremely rigid and long criteria, particulary for multiple murders.

There is the case of the guy who was sentenced for murder who has been found innocent after 7 years so clearly mistakes can be made.
A signed confession on its own too,may not be right either, some people for some reason do confess to crimes they haven't done.

This crime debated here against this frail totally defenceless old lady of 94, is a despicable one and thank goodness she has thus far survived the attack, whatever was in the minds of whoever commited this crime was far from any human decency,that's for sure.What other equally or more horrific crimes will they try to get awy with too.

[arista]

Reported today she
has sadly died.

[Kizzy]

Oh no, poor lady
Its murder then....

[bbfan1991]

RIP Emma Winnall, so sad. I hope that the scum who battered her are brought to justice!

[Omah]

So sad .....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...ngham-18250776

Supt Richard Baker of West Midlands Police said it was "desperately sad news".

"Clearly, this has now become a murder inquiry. But given the extent of Emma's injuries, combined with her age and vulnerability, this investigation has always been treated with the same level of seriousness as a murder investigation."

"No-one capable of carrying out such a despicable attack deserves protecting."

He appealed for anyone with information to contact police.

The scumbags ahould be hung, drawn and quartered .....

[arista]

Originally Posted by kizzy

Oh no, poor lady
Its murder then....

Yes

[Niamh.]

Poor woman, what an awful end to such a long life.

[Kazanne]

Any one who can do this sort of thing to an old person or kid is just cowardly scum who do not deserve to share the same air as civilised human beings,this poor lady had no defense ,I hope she haunts them for the rest of their pitiful lives,which hopefully wont be long!

[Pyramid*]

Picking up on Kizzy's point earlier in this thread: given the forensics available to us today, DNA, CCTV, and god knows what else: for cases where there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever: I'd happily see lowlife scum like this: given the same beating as they did to their victims: and once left suffering: then end their lives.

Never mind the quick relatively painfree death stuff: let them suffer then die.

[bbfan1991]

This case has rightly been featured highly in the news here in the Midlands, it is so upsetting.

[Ninastar]

Oh this is so sad

[Jack_]

Very sad news. RIP.

I await however the barrage of inevitable comments demanding we bring back the death penalty, stone them, torture them, and a whole load of other odd, detailed descriptions of what should happen to the two responsible. I can see they've started already.

Originally Posted by joeysteele

While I defend your right to hold that view and I used to myself until recently.
What on earth though could this 94 year old do to defend herself at all, possibly it seems against 2 much younger people too.

They are not people who can do this to a frail 94 year old, maybe the lady doesn't have a great deal of time left as to life, it's actually a wonder she has survived this barbaric attack on her.

Those who did it though will firstly not get life sentences anyway,unless the lady loses her life,also they will have the rest of their lives,still some with freedom to come as well.

It is hardly any wonder that more and more people would advocate bringing back capital punishment for 'some' crimes with very strict criteria as to it, however I would dare bet that in a refendum on this issue would get at least 70% to 80% support for it.

1) The system screams hypocrisy. It's wrong to kill someone, so as punishment...we're...going to kill you. Pretty dumb.

2) It's built upon a false sense of justice and 'revenge'. Very scary when people are so desperate for blood.

3) I don't actually think it's 'punishment' at all. Surely spending many years, if not your whole life in prison is worse than being killed in a matter of minutes?

4) It's completely uncivilised and we bring ourselves down to those who commit these foul crimes.

5) It promotes and endorses murder. If the state itself is doing it then whom are citizens supposed to 'look up' to?

There's more reasons for keeping it abolished than there are for bringing it back. It solves nothing and only leads to people baying for blood.

[bbfan1991]

I agree Jack, I do not agree with the death penalty either, some criminals would see it as an easy way out to escape their crimes as they would no longer be here and I think they would be better off rotting in jail thinking of the consequences of their actions or suffering.

The danger if the death penalty were to be brought back is innocent people getting wrongly convicted of a crime they did not do and then they are put to death, things like this have happened in America and it is too late once new evidence has been uncovered to save the innocent party and put the guilty one in jail, or even using the death penalty like some states there have.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Very sad news. RIP.

I await however the barrage of inevitable comments demanding we bring back the death penalty, stone them, torture them, and a whole load of other odd, detailed descriptions of what should happen to the two responsible. I can see they've started already.



1) The system screams hypocrisy. It's wrong to kill someone, so as punishment...we're...going to kill you. Pretty dumb.

2) It's built upon a false sense of justice and 'revenge'. Very scary when people are so desperate for blood.

3) I don't actually think it's 'punishment' at all. Surely spending many years, if not your whole life in prison is worse than being killed in a matter of minutes?

4) It's completely uncivilised and we bring ourselves down to those who commit these foul crimes.

5) It promotes and endorses murder. If the state itself is doing it then whom are citizens supposed to 'look up' to?

There's more reasons for keeping it abolished than there are for bringing it back. It solves nothing and only leads to people baying for blood.

I agree with this but the problem is sentencing is never long enough. For a crime like this I believe those responsible should never have the luxury of stepping back into society again, they don't deserve it.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Very sad news. RIP.

I await however the barrage of inevitable comments demanding we bring back the death penalty, stone them, torture them, and a whole load of other odd, detailed descriptions of what should happen to the two responsible. I can see they've started already.



1) The system screams hypocrisy. It's wrong to kill someone, so as punishment...we're...going to kill you. Pretty dumb.

2) It's built upon a false sense of justice and 'revenge'. Very scary when people are so desperate for blood.

3) I don't actually think it's 'punishment' at all. Surely spending many years, if not your whole life in prison is worse than being killed in a matter of minutes?

4) It's completely uncivilised and we bring ourselves down to those who commit these foul crimes.

5) It promotes and endorses murder. If the state itself is doing it then whom are citizens supposed to 'look up' to?

There's more reasons for keeping it abolished than there are for bringing it back. It solves nothing and only leads to people baying for blood.

Totally understand where you are coming from Jack: with the thought that it is either right or wrong to kill someone - I totally understand.

My thought process is that there is a difference in mindfully killing someone for personal gain, for sexual pleasure whatever: and ending someone's life because that is their punishment for taking an innocent's life

That's possibley the only way I can think of right now to put over how I view the difference.

I know there are the ''eye for an eye'' school of thought, vs the ''two wrongs don't make a right'' school of thought.

In cases such as this: where there is a victim and it is proven beyond all doubt: I am def in for punishment by death. Moreso because I would rather see the taxpayers money be used for more benefitting people: rather than keep such murderers fed, clothed, housed, regardless of their loss of freedom. A freedom that they took from an innocent person. I'd rather the monies went to the survivors of such victms and other far better uses than keeping scum like this alive.

Harsh, but that's my own thoughts.

[joeysteele]

II am not a bloodthirsty person who would glory in seeing people put to death if there were capital punishment in the UK but there isn't, also likely never to be again anyway but if there was,then all people had to do to avoid it was 'not' kill someone else for no reason.

Whoever did this,should get full life sentences,for the rest of their lives not a sentence where they may get out in 15 to 20 years time.

What a way for this Woman to lose her life, 94 years old,surviving a war, a Mother, a Grandmother, minding her own business in her own home and then some truly rotten individual/s come along and destroy that life.

Emotive,I certainly am,yet these people will, as has been said above, be fed, watch TV,get access to exercise and recreation,may even get to use a gym, will have access to phones and family and friends will be able to visit them and talk to them,even get to use modern technology,all for free, the only difference is,they will have their liberty taken away from them.

If they at least don't get that liberty taken away for the rest of their miserable,rotten lives then any punishment will be a total disgrace and nowhere near justice for this lady either.

[Kizzy]

Well said joey, I wonder just hypothetically if a 'murderers only' prison would work...
With reduced facilities other than the endless contemplation of their actions for life?

[Niamh.]

Well said Joey

[Niamh.]

lol snap Kizzy

[arista]

Originally Posted by kizzy

Well said joey, I wonder just hypothetically if a 'murderers only' prison would work...
With reduced facilities other than the endless contemplation of their actions for life?

No

[Marsh.]

Just disgusting. Horrible that someone could live to such a great age and then to die in this manner. Crazy.