[sampvt]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Sam, it's a good discussion and I don't see why people shouldn't be able to talk about it with insulting other members.

Im not insulting anyone nor do I infer than discussions are not allowed, I simply intimated that this is an extension of the other thread that got out of control and there was very little left to say as tempers were flared and fall outs happened. God knows how I will ever get Jack to love me now as my label of Paper boy seems to have stuck on him and he may have a contract on me now.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by sampvt

Im not insulting anyone nor do I infer than discussions are not allowed, I simply intimated that this is an extension of the other thread that got out of control and there was very little left to say as tempers were flared and fall outs happened. God knows how I will ever get Jack to love me now as my label of Paper boy seems to have stuck on him and he may have a contract on me now.

I didn't say you were insulting anyone Sam (although was there really a need to bring Jack into a discussion between me and you?) I meant the last thread was closed because people became insulting, maybe we could try and talk about one of the biggest stories of last nights show without getting personal with eachother this time

[sampvt]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I didn't say you were insulting anyone Sam (although was there really a need to bring Jack into a discussion between me and you?) I meant the last thread was closed because people became insulting, maybe we could try and talk about one of the biggest stories of last nights show without getting personal with eachother this time

I brought Jack into this room as he is already in it. Also it was a bit of levity and not malice.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by sampvt

I brought Jack into this room as he is already in it. Also it was a bit of levity and not malice.

Ok but we need to stick to the discussion rather then other forum members, that way threads don't get closed

[Pigeon Lady]

..I do think it is quite an interesting discussion to have because it was just said in a 'matter of fact' conversation way and yet it's obviously a homophobic view and I don't think it's an 'age' thing at all but a religious thing...

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I do think it is quite an interesting discussion to have because it was just said in a 'matter of fact' conversation way and yet it's obviously a homophobic view and I don't think it's an 'age' thing at all but a religious thing...

Yeah, definitely in Evanders case i think it's a religious thing, he did mention the bible a couple of times during the conversation iirc

[the truth]

Originally Posted by JTM45

How do you have the gall to call yourself 'The Truth' (snigger...) when you tell so many lies ?
The way the OP described Evander's comments were spot-on but you, yet again, have to claim he didn't compare it to a disability. He DID!!! Read the transcript, re-watch the clip because it obviously didn't sink in the first time or maybe you just don't understand things too well.
You called someone a liar earlier because they said Conor went unpunished and you claimed Conor was ejected. He WASN'T!!! You're full of it!
And the person you're refering to in the "one poster has even comapred it to hitler and the nazis?" comment was obviously myself. That is clearly not what i did!!! Oh....but you'd rather convey it in a far more over the top manner!
Do you even know what 'totalitarian' means because the way you used the word would indicate otherwise!

The last thread on this subject was closed because you started throwing petty insults around and attempting to bait other forum users.

Are you 5 years old because you're acting like you are ?

you he didnt youre taking things out of context, in short youre lying.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Jack_

He wasn't warned. This misconception is annoying me now because the transcripts and clips are available for everyone to see.

He was merely reminded of the rules and that what he said could potentially be offensive to some viewers. It's the exact same conversation that his agent would have had with him if he could, because you can't say stuff like that on a national TV show in the UK. Not only do C5 have a brand to protect but it's social suicide, and hence such a reminder was to be expected and was also justified.

But he wasn't given any kind of official formal warning.

he was warned. big brother used the word warn when telling him. that means he was warned. end of.

[starry]

Originally Posted by arista

It would be the same on Ch4 as well.

TV has to censor Extreme views, its normal

They censor what prejudices they want a controversy over and think aren't fashionable and turn a blind eye to others. That itself is a prejudice.

[Pigeon Lady]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah, definitely in Evanders case i think it's a religious thing, he did mention the bible a couple of times during the conversation iirc

..I get a bit annoyed when some people assume it's an 'older' thing..oh, older people are just intolerant/set in their views etc because like anything, views are specific to the person and not to an age and I know of a few younger people who are absolutely lovely/kind/caring etc..just really nice people and who their Christianity has become a huge part of their lives as they were in their late teens and I'm quite staggered at their views on gay people..so it's completely to do with beliefs and not age because it's also not something taught through their parents either...I wish that Luisa had questioned and talked to him more about it all, rather than just say..that's wrong/you can't say that because that's not going to make him think about it, whereas discussing it with him just might....

[Tom4784]

Evander's entitled to his opinion just like we're entitled to rip it apart.

He's an incredibly ignorant person but I don't think he's a bad guy, I'm not supporting him any more though.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I get a bit annoyed when some people assume it's an 'older' thing..oh, older people are just intolerant/set in their views etc because like anything, views are specific to the person and not to an age and I know of a few younger people who are absolutely lovely/kind/caring etc..just really nice people and who their Christianity has become a huge part of their lives as they were in their late teens and I'm quite staggered at their views on gay people..so it's completely to do with beliefs and not age because it's also not something taught through their parents either...I wish that Luisa had questioned and talked to him more about it all, rather than just say..that's wrong/you can't say that because that's not going to make him think about it, whereas discussing it with him just might....

I think Luisa knew that he was going to get in trouble for what he was saying which is why she wanted him to stop.

I think there might be some truth to some of the older generation maybe not being as accepting as alot of the younger generation (although i wouldn't generalize a whole demographic either) simply because being gay wasn't acceptable in society when alot of older people were growing and when their opinions might have been forming.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by the truth

he didnt exactly say that did he? thats been taken a bit out of context and over the top. hes not the most eloquent of people either. he wasnt trying to offend either. he didnt compare it directly to disablity at all....he just mumbled something vague about people can get help from doctors

he does believe its a choice at least in some cases and he seems to believe medical help can be sought and given for homosexuality.
is he right in some cases? I honestly dont know. but the comments on here about how disgusting he is and how ignorant and some who want him booted out for merely expressing his opinion to a conversation luissa invited him into , are ridiculously over the top. one poster has even comapred it to hitler and the nazis?

also those posters who claim some divine right to only have their opinions heard and who claim that they know for certain every person on the planet doesnt choose their sexuality but are born with it, are stupendously arrogant and in stereotyping everyone are ignorant in a different way. they also support the raidcal PC agenda to outlaw censor and ban any differing opinions. claiming thats whats good for society and thats progress. its not. its totalitarian bull**** what takes these issues no further forward at all.

no doubt holyfield and the whole show will now be overshadowed by this hysterical nonsense. we are such a dumb deluded country.

we get one small understanding of a topic and we think were world leaders who can dictate to the rest of the world how to think and what theyre all allowed to say.

granted people across the world in many areas face discrimination and torture, that includes gay , disabled, blind, sick, poor, starving etc but thats not really the case in europe. clearly bullying does exist though and i deplore that. instead of hanging holyfield we should discuss it in the mainstream.

all we ever do in the Uk is discuss having a discission. the discussion never happens because everyone gets offended before the chat has even started

Excellent post ,and so very true

[Pigeon Lady]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I think Luisa knew that he was going to get in trouble for what he was saying which is why she wanted him to stop.

I think there might be some truth to some of the older generation maybe not being as accepting as alot of the younger generation (although i wouldn't generalize a whole demographic either) simply because being gay wasn't acceptable in society when alot of older people were growing and when they're opinions might have been forming.

..yeah, I guess you're right in that it wasn't so accepted 'back in the day..'..but I guess it annoys me in this case maybe because for him it is more of a religious belief, but it could in all honesty be a bit of both and also a very 'macho' environment of boxing...?...

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..yeah, I guess you're right in that it wasn't so accepted 'back in the day..'..but I guess it annoys me in this case maybe because for him it is more of a religious belief, but it could in all honesty be a bit of both and also a very 'macho' environment of boxing...?...

Oh yeah in his case I definitely think it's religious and quite possibly a little to do with his profession

[Seanbon]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

He indicated that being gay was the same as having a handicap that maybe could be fixed.
No matter how it gets drressed up, he clearly sees gay people as ill in some warped way.
That was the thrust of his justification of his opinion that people should not and need not be gay.

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Thst opinion is not one that in fact can be seen as a right one.
He was out of order making it on a TV programme that is being filmed 24/7 which he clearly knows it is too.

I had some respect for him until this nonsense he spouted out last night.
His attitude if held by masses of people would have the lives of gay people made a misery all over again.
At times it is still really bad they come up against bigoted and prejudiced views such as what we heard last night from Evander.

If he has been raised in a fundamental Christian family/church,this belief has probably been preached to him as a fact! To him it is a fact,no matter how abhorrent it is to the you or I?!?
His understanding of BB is debatable too! I don't think he realises that every conversation is picked up and/or broadcast!?!

[daniel-lewis-1985]

Originally Posted by sampvt

OH FFS, do we need to have another thread like this. There was 529 hits on the other one that got closed because it was becoming a straight bashing exercise and an argument about whether he got warned ort not. The clip we saw was edited, so he may have been warned (IN WORDS OF OFFICIALDOM) off camera and what he said was off the cuff and has been discussed to death. OK he might be a bit of a homophobe but that's his world.

Last time I looked, gays on tv like Alan Carr and the like, say things 10 times worse all the time. Vegans have extreme views on meat eaters, Greenpeace has extreme views on world affairs and the planet and people with gender issues are very verbal against people that don't sing their tune. There is a bit of a difference between a statement of intent and an innocuous comment between friends. Unfortunately it is nearly impossible to even broach the subject of gay issues on here due to the large imbalance and the added shield of PC immunity on here, so I guess we will have to live with it but to pillory the man for what he said is wrong. He should have been advised to tone it down. In my book he was neither better nor worse than the comments made by the tart about finger bashing. However on here it seems to be virtually impossible to discuss gay issues rationally so we need to sideline it as an expression fo an opinion that went out of control. But he was warned so he now knows.

Erm...I think my original post is very open minded and not one sided and was intended to get people to actually discuss it and not throw insults like the last one.

The post I see a forum member denying he said certain comments is just ridiculous.

Im all for freedom of speech and I wanted to hear more of the conversation to be honest I was genuinely interested in what he had to say.

Surely you must understand being compared to a handicap and saying we are wrong could cause insult?

Hes a devout Christian from a black community in America who are very passionate about the Bible to a point they seem slightly brainwashed by it.

I am not "wrong" or a "handicap" neither do I need to be fixed.

I think people are more angry because even though it was an apparent opinion he was preaching it and forcing his opinion as fact.

Heres some of the things he said, it wasn't really an *in my opinion I think....Which would have made it a lot better as the words he said WERE homophobic.

"That ain't normal"

"If you were born and your leg were turned this way - what would you do? You go to the doctor and get it fixed back right?"

"All I'm trying to tell you, you know how handicap people are born?"

"You can’t say because they are born that way you can’t move that..."

"Yes it is a choice,"

In regards to Luisa I don't think she didn't want to talk about it because he may get into trouble, I think she thinks it will put her in the firing line to face eviction as they are chained up together.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by daniel-lewis-1985

Erm...I think my original post is very open minded and not one sided and was intended to get people to actually discuss it and not throw insults like the last one.

The post I see a forum member denying he said certain comments.

Im all for freedom of speech and I wanted to hear more of the conversation.

Surely you must understand being compared to a handicap and saying we are wrong could cause insult?

Hes a devout Christian from a black community in America who are very passionate about the Bible to a point they seem slightly brainwashed by it.

I am not "wrong" or a "handicap" neither do I need to be fixed.

he didnt say its a handicap
also how would you like it if someone said youd been brainwashed to be gay? just as you say the Christian in the US seem to be brainwashed?
this works both ways

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by the truth

he didnt say its a handicap
also how would you like it if someone said youd been brainwashed to be gay? just as you say the Christian in the US seem to be brainwashed?
this works both ways

Yes it does work both ways

[Scream]

May I just say the people who are saying he's not an eloquent speaker are talking crap...

Firstly, just because you aren't very fluent in a language doesn't mean it's acceptable to speak about people in the way he did otherwise people would be using that as an excuse all the time.

Also, i'm sure he knows what handicapped and not normal means...he's not thick.

[Seanbon]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I think Luisa knew that he was going to get in trouble for what he was saying which is why she wanted him to stop.

I think there might be some truth to some of the older generation maybe not being as accepting as alot of the younger generation (although i wouldn't generalize a whole demographic either) simply because being gay wasn't acceptable in society when alot of older people were growing and when their opinions might have been forming.

I think Luisa made very little effort to stop him! She knew it would be controversial,and get her some airtime,so she put in a "You can't say that" and a "I'm not comfortable with this",or words to that effect. If she had told him to shut it,as every whisper of conversation is brought up and he'll get himself into trouble,that would have been a proper effort!?!

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Scream

May I just say the people who are saying he's not an eloquent speaker are talking crap...

Firstly, just because you aren't very fluent in a language doesn't mean it's acceptable to speak about people in the way he did otherwise people would be using that as an excuse all the time.

Also, i'm sure he knows what handicapped and not normal means...he's not thick.

but its ok to egenralize that all american Christians may be brainwashed? double standards

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Seanbon

I think Luisa made very little effort to stop him! She knew it would be controversial,and get her some airtime,so she put in a "You can't say that" and a "I'm not comfortable with this",or words to that effect. If she had told him to shut it,as every whisper of conversation is brought up and he'll get himself into trouble,that would have been a proper effort!?!

I thought she did anyway. I don't remember her exact words but I'm pretty sure she told him he should stop talking about it

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Seanbon

I think Luisa made very little effort to stop him! She knew it would be controversial,and get her some airtime,so she put in a "You can't say that" and a "I'm not comfortable with this",or words to that effect. If she had told him to shut it,as every whisper of conversation is brought up and he'll get himself into trouble,that would have been a proper effort!?!

Luisa was loving the camera time, she knew cameras would stay on the conversation,she half heartedly tried to stop him,but in a lame way

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by the truth

but its ok to egenralize that all american Christians may be brainwashed? double standards

Agree totally