[joeysteele]

Great to see you back Redway and posing another question to us.
I always have loved that from you.

I can only say I come to the table with I don't really know,I would not discount anything.
I have heard Children in my own family, only aged about 4, say some incredible things.
I have also come across things I certainly cannot answer happening as to life after death too.

The argument for near death experiences often is, the brain closing down at the end of life however it happens when people do not die at all, yet a lot is left there unexplained.

It is something as to creation and other things life before birth or life after death too, I do keep an open mind on.
There are many things we do not know and may never know.

There are many things science too cannot explain too.
I keep an open mind and glad I do.

Of course it is easy to dismiss as nonsense but I am not so sure, and would always try to listen to people who may have come across this with Children as to life before birth or the near death experiences occurrences too.

[Northern Monkey]

How does this work?Does the soul fly down from heaven and fly up the mothers vagina when she gets preggers?I can't think of any other way tbh.

[Jessica.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I believe in neither pre nor post life

Same as this.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

How does this work?Does the soul fly down from heaven and fly up the mothers vagina when she gets preggers?I can't think of any other way tbh.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I never really know why people cant be amazed with real life and all the amazing things that natural selection, chance and time have given us. There is so much to learn about.Who has time for made up crap?

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I never really know why people cant be amazed with real life and all the amazing things that natural selection, chance and time have given us. There is so much to learn about.Who has time for made up crap?

So true.You only have to look at the universe and origins of life to be amazed.That's just not enough for many people though.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

So true.You only have to look at the universe and origins of life to be amazed.That's just not enough for many people though.

I mean someone tell me this is'nt frickin amazing...

Youtube video

Youtube video

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by jet

If anyone is interested in reading about people who have been brought back after being 'dead' for a short time the Raymond Moody books 'Life After Life' and 'The Light Beyond' are good reads. He has tirelessly researched hundreds of cases of what they experienced whilst 'dead' (or NDE's (near death experiences) and how their experiences made them totally convinced of an afterlife and how they all lost their fear of death. Most of these people had 'floated' out of their bodies, moved through a tunnel towards a 'light' from which emanated an overwhelming feeling of love and peace...but were brought back to life before they reached whatever was there...
and they didn't want to come back to this world...
One phenomenon which really interested me was how some people had died on the operating table, floated out of their bodies and out of the operating room, and when they were brought back to life were able to recount seeing their relatives in another room in the hospital, what they had been talking about word for word, what the doctors were telling them, what everyone had been doing etc to everyone's astonishment. How can that be explained? It's all very fascinating, I think.

I have had a deep interest in this subject (among others) for decades and read similar books and articles, and watched dozens of documentaries on it.

There is just TOO much evidence - testimony from genuine honest ordinary people from all walks of life for it to be so easily 'pooh-hood' away.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by jet

If anyone is interested in reading about people who have been brought back after being 'dead' for a short time the Raymond Moody books 'Life After Life' and 'The Light Beyond' are good reads. He has tirelessly researched hundreds of cases of what they experienced whilst 'dead' (or NDE's (near death experiences) and how their experiences made them totally convinced of an afterlife and how they all lost their fear of death. Most of these people had 'floated' out of their bodies, moved through a tunnel towards a 'light' from which emanated an overwhelming feeling of love and peace...but were brought back to life before they reached whatever was there...
and they didn't want to come back to this world...
One phenomenon which really interested me was how some people had died on the operating table, floated out of their bodies and out of the operating room, and when they were brought back to life were able to recount seeing their relatives in another room in the hospital, what they had been talking about word for word, what the doctors were telling them, what everyone had been doing etc to everyone's astonishment. How can that be explained? It's all very fascinating, I think.

..I'll try to have a read of your suggestions, jet...I don't know, I guess my thoughts on NDEs are that there could be explainable factors to the unexplainable', which are not there for everyone but are for some...I've read some stories as well because I had a bit of an experience myself once when I was having surgery.../the surgery was brain related so really that I think is a factor also with a coming together or 'brain altering' brief moments and parts of the brain/sub conscious becoming the consciousness and the sub conscious stores so much that we don't even realise, like a photographic memory etc and just so much more, like a central data bank.....and it's also the thing with those moments of brain altering that a huge cocktail of drugs/anaesthesia is in our bodies as well/and factored in... so in surgery those things that are specific for some can lead (and possibly explain..)... some near death experiences of being so heightened and aware of a situation that it feels as though it's being experienced.../that 's probably a lot of rubbish though, my thoughts...it's definitely one of those things that is quite fascinating though...

[jennyjuniper]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

That might just silence LT Jenny - But I doubt it.

I doubt it, I'm glad to say I may not always agree with LT (although it's rare that I do disagree with him) but he speaks a heck of a lot of common sense.

[thesheriff443]

I tend to think using logic, not looked at this topic
There is a large number of doctors psychiatrics that a persons life will be determended before the age of five.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

How does this work?Does the soul fly down from heaven and fly up the mothers vagina when she gets preggers?I can't think of any other way tbh.

NM
there is no Heaven
thats just films

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

I tend to think using logic, not looked at this topic
There is a large number of doctors psychiatrics that a persons life will be determended before the age of five.

Sounds interesting....But how?

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Sounds interesting....But how?

Its been a while since a doctor gave a talk on this subject, I'm sure there will be some material on the internet on it.

[Kizzy]

I do yes, My daughter at 2 used to cry when I called her charlotte insisting she was called rebecca :/

[kirklancaster]

I have witnessed my own children when they were very young babies, and now my granddaughter, having 'Nightmares'.

It is accepted by the experts that children can have 'Night Terrors' from the age of one month, and that by the age of one year old, they can have 'Nightmares'.

I do not agree with their opinion on the difference between these two 'experiences', but for the purpose of this post, I will accept that the two mean different things.

My point is this; a baby who is but a few month's old has no life experience, no 'memories', and most certainly - though they are 'conscious' - are bereft of knowledge and not even 'aware' of their environment in the true sense of the word.

What is it then, that can cause a two month's old baby to scream or cry out and wake it from a deep sleep and leave it upset and frightened with heart racing and often sweat soaked - all the symptoms of having experienced a Nightmare.

I do not accept for one moment the 'experts' view that such 'Night Terrors' are caused by a conflict between the body's 'Drive' to sleep and its 'Drive' to wake – a condition which they call a 'Confusional Event' – or are probably caused by 'disorientation due to incomplete awakening'.

In my opinion – and some notable scientists – the baby is experiencing a nightmare.

This being so, I ask; what event, person or entity can so frighten a baby who has no life experience or awareness, and therefore NONE of it's own stored MEMORIES of such things?

A baby is hardly reliving REAL memories – like the time it was chased through a town centre by a mob of knife-wielding louts, or remembering in a deep sleep cycle, the time that Great Aunt Maude nearly caught it stealing a fiver from her handbag.

Nor has it the ABILITY or MEANS to imagine any 'Nightmare Scenario', when even the most vividly and bizarrely convoluted of imagined nightmares are either dependent upon the memories of REAL direct experiences (or 'autobiographic episodic memories') or indirect acquired knowledge for their existence.

So here we have a baby whose mind is a virtual 'Blank Canvas' experiencing SOMETHING which gives it nightmares.

There can be only be two possible explanations for such an enigma – Reincarnation or perhaps the baby's mind is unconsciously accessing SOMEONE ELSE'S memories.

As crazy as both the above may seem to my dear friend LT and some others on here, the evidence for Reincarnation is now so extensive that it cannot be easily dismissed, and there is also a growing field of scientific thought – which experimental conclusions support – that actual Memory does not simply reside within the brain, but is, instead, rather stored OUTSIDE of it in some type of 'electro magnetic field'.

Extensive research into 'Memory' has been carried out independently by numerous scientists over many decades, and some of the findings are surprising;

Celebrated psychologist and behaviourist,*Karl Lashley – one of the world's most respected 'Brain' experts – carried out an experiment on 'Lab Rats' in which he first taught the rats tricks before removing half of their brains.

The rats REMEMBERED the tricks.

Lashley then used another set of rats which he taught the same tricks to before removing the opposite hemisphere of the brain to the first set.

The rats STILL remembered the tricks.

It seems, that if memory is truly housed within the brain, then where exactly – when memory is still extant when the complete brain had been removed – is a great mystery.

I first came across controversial Biologist, Researcher, and Author, Rupert Sheldrake when I was a young 'dreamer' searching religion and philosophy for 'answers' to the 'meaning of life', and he actually proposed certain theories which not only made sense to me, but also 'crystallised' some of my own 'scrambed' thoughts.

Sheldrake has a theory – which he calls 'Morphic Resonance' – that memory need not be stored specifically or exclusively within the brain, but rather in a type of 'Morphogenic Field' (similar to Kirlian Light Auras) which surrounds an organism (the body AND brain in humans) and that each individual member of a species (not just humans or animal life) inherits a 'collective' memory from 'past members' of the species' who then adds his contribution to this collective memory through living his life, which is then 'drawn upon' by other members of the species in the future.

I have neither the time or inclination to expound upon this here, but I recommend giving Sheldrake a good read for those interested in this fascinating subject.

Anyway, Sheldrake's theories loosely parallel my own thoughts, and goes some way to explaining why people have very real 'memories' which are NOT their own, as well as the phenomena of 'ghosts' – if you think about it.

It can also explain why babies with no 'episodic memories' of their own can have nightmares.

Reincarnation is another post.

[Ammi]

...(my own thoughts and the quick version..)...is that it's to do with the transcending into sleep cycles and for whatever reason a baby struggling with that...we wouldn't know if they were having a nightmare or night terror as such because they're unable to communicate and convey... but just that they're displaying symptoms/actions of...obviously small babies can't communicate/can't consciously associate etc with stresses..but they do feel stress/they do feel confusion, they do feel discomforts etc so that transfers according to the situation and if they are in certain parts of sleep cycles and feeling a type of confusion/emotional stress..?.../that would convey in the appearance of a night terror/nightmare etc...anyways I have no knowledge of these things but those would be my thoughts...

[Johnnyuk123]

Great post Kirk! Good to have you back online.
I have a simple solution to the baby having nightmares.
You didn't accidentally let her see my avatar just before putting her to bed?

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Great to see you back Redway and posing another question to us.
I always have loved that from you.

I can only say I come to the table with I don't really know,I would not discount anything.
I have heard Children in my own family, only aged about 4, say some incredible things.
I have also come across things I certainly cannot answer happening as to life after death too.

The argument for near death experiences often is, the brain closing down at the end of life however it happens when people do not die at all, yet a lot is left there unexplained.

It is something as to creation and other things life before birth or life after death too, I do keep an open mind on.
There are many things we do not know and may never know.

There are many things science too cannot explain too.
I keep an open mind and glad I do.

Of course it is easy to dismiss as nonsense but I am not so sure, and would always try to listen to people who may have come across this with Children as to life before birth or the near death experiences occurrences too.

I love debates like this but don't think Tibb is the place for it as it's nice to discuss it without feeling like a simpleton,I find it fascinating stuff and would never dismiss anything just because I don't understand it or do not want to.Keep that open mind Joey it's a good thing.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

I love debates like this but don't think Tibb is the place for it as it's nice to discuss it without feeling like a simpleton,I find it fascinating stuff and would never dismiss anything just because I don't understand it or do not want to.Keep that open mind Joey it's a good thing.

...(I think for the most part, Kaz..)...people are interested in all thoughts on these things, whatever their own thoughts are..and most would be very interested in your views as well......

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

I love debates like this but don't think Tibb is the place for it as it's nice to discuss it without feeling like a simpleton,I find it fascinating stuff and would never dismiss anything just because I don't understand it or do not want to.Keep that open mind Joey it's a good thing.

We have touched on this in threads in the past Kazanne, forget what you may be made to feel, no one should think themselves less valid to comment when they have a strong view on the subject.

Too many things have happened I cannot explain and as you see others hold that view as well.

I try to not close my mind to anything, it often helps steer me to thinking differently on issues after what I hear from others or it helps reinforce my original view.
Like Ammi,I agree, it would be good to hear your take on this, so whenever you may want to, don't be put off by anything,you know what you feel, what you have come across just as and probably a great many others have too.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

We have touched on this in threads in the past Kazanne, forget what you may be made to feel, no one should think themselves less valid to comment when they have a strong view on the subject.

Too many things have happened I cannot explain and as you see others hold that view as well.

I try to not close my mind to anything, it often helps steer me to thinking differently on issues after what I hear from others or it helps reinforce my original view.
Like Ammi,I agree, it would be good to hear your take on this, so whenever you may want to, don't be put off by anything,you know what you feel, what you have come across just as and probably a great many others have too.

I've never really thought about this subject but it's been really interesting to read. I probably fall more in line with being a non believer but like you said Joey it's important to still keep an open mind, that's how we manage to expand our scientific knowledge, by thinking outside of what we know/think we know. Kirk's rat experiment was really interesting for example, and just goes to show there's so much we can't understand yet, so I don't see how anything can be written off as false even if someone doesn't believe it personally. It's kind of limiting to only consider things that have already been proved by science... it's a funny logic because if scientists themselves did that we'd never progress our understanding of anything

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

I love debates like this but don't think Tibb is the place for it as it's nice to discuss it without feeling like a simpleton,I find it fascinating stuff and would never dismiss anything just because I don't understand it or do not want to.Keep that open mind Joey it's a good thing.

I don't believe in life before birth.However i respect your right to believe it and your opinion is just as valid as anyones.I don't think you're a 'simpleton'

Just as i'm not religious however i find religion very interesting.I'm reading The Bible right now.It's a fascinating insight into life in ancient times.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Here is a short and succinct summary of what happens after you die and touches on before you are born

Youtube video

This chap is an American astrophysicist, cosmologist, author, and science communicator. Since 1996, he has been the Frederick P. Rose Director of the Hayden Planetarium at the Rose Center for Earth and Space in New York City. The center is part of the American Museum of Natural History, where Tyson founded the Department of Astrophysics in 1997 and has been a research associate in the department since 2003.

[Jessica.]

I hate that I can't even get involved in threads like this, the subject interests me, but everyone will call me a bully for saying it doesn't exist instead of there being mutual respect for both believers and non believers. I've already seen some of that attitude after reading the thread, so I guess I can't get involved.