[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

In past discussions on the wearing of burkhas on here the usual crowd have argued the wearing of them should be allowed in The West as women should be able to wear what they want despite it being common knowledge that many have no choice.

People chose to focus on the ones that did choose to. Either way it shouldn't be tolerated here for the reasons I already mentioned.

The ban in France has caused some real problems for those women forced to wear the veil by husbands, brothers or fathers. Because of this law, some women are no longer allowed out and kept like prisoners in their own homes.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

The ban in France has caused some real problems for those women forced to wear the veil by husbands, brothers or fathers. Because of this law, some women are no longer allowed out and kept like prisoners in their own homes.

Naturally I don't support that but it comes to something when the general public of the host country have to care more about Muslim women than their own husbands and families. It speaks volumes and pretty much amounts to emotional blackmail.

It's clearly Muslim men, and women, that need educating not us. Men for obvious reasons and women to support each other and learn to stand up for themselves. They are in a much stronger position to do so in the West than in the depths of the Middle East.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I'm not so much interested in historical events as the here and now. We can't change the past.

Neither am I so insecure that I believe we should forever feel apologetic about the alleged actions of past generations and certainly not to the point of the destruction of our own identity and way of life - that fragile belief didn't get the Germans very far did it?

How very convenient for you to ignore our past as murdering immigrants.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

How very convenient for you to ignore our past as murdering immigrants.

Is that how you see yourself? It certainly isn't how I see myself. I fail to see what that has to do with current issues.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I'm not so much interested in historical events as the here and now. We can't change the past.

Neither am I so insecure that I believe we should forever feel apologetic about the alleged actions of past generations and certainly not to the point of the destruction of our own identity and way of life - that fragile belief didn't get the Germans very far did it?

How can you say you don’t care about history when the history we are talking about is so recent? If history doesn’t matter, then does 9/11 not matter? Before 9/11 there was relative peace in the Middle East and the countries that are now in chaos were stable regions with long term leaders and relatively good economies. For the past 14 years we have played our hand in the upheaval and the deaths of millions of Muslims and we are now seeing the consequences of that involvement.

Its fundamentally important to understand what these repercussions are about because if we don’t, we may as well just fall down the rabbit hole where we can wallow in our own fear and ignorance.

You recently tried to deal me a low blow by suggesting, (tongue in cheek) that I was a terrorist sympathiser. Those words told me two things, 1) that you don't know or don't care about the atrocities we have committed and 2) Unlike me, who's sympathies lie with both the innocent westerners and Middle East civilians who get caught up in the political backlash, you have little sympathy for the later.

[Withasnow]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

How can you say you don’t care about history when the history we are talking about is so recent? If history doesn’t matter, then does 9/11 not matter? Before 9/11 there was relative peace in the Middle East and the countries that are now in chaos were stable regions with long term leaders and relatively good economies. For the past 14 years we have played our hand in the upheaval and the deaths of millions of Muslims and we are now seeing the consequences of that involvement.

Its fundamentally important to understand what these repercussions are about because if we don’t, we may as well just fall down the rabbit hole where we can wallow in our own fear and ignorance.

You recently tried to deal me a low blow by suggesting, (tongue in cheek) that I was a terrorist sympathiser. Those words told me two things, 1) that you don't know or don't care about the atrocities we have committed and 2) Unlike me, who's sympathies lie with both the innocent westerners and Middle East civilians who get caught up in the political backlash, you have little sympathy for the later.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

How can you say you don’t care about history when the history we are talking about is so recent? If history doesn’t matter, then does 9/11 not matter? Before 9/11 there was relative peace in the Middle East and the countries that are now in chaos were stable regions with long term leaders and relatively good economies. For the past 14 years we have played our hand in the upheaval and the deaths of millions of Muslims and we are now seeing the consequences of that involvement.

Its fundamentally important to understand what these repercussions are about because if we don’t, we may as well just fall down the rabbit hole where we can wallow in our own fear and ignorance.

You recently tried to deal me a low blow by suggesting, (tongue in cheek) that I was a terrorist sympathiser. Those words told me two things, 1) that you don't know or don't care about the atrocities we have committed and 2) Unlike me, who's sympathies lie with both the innocent westerners and Middle East civilians who get caught up in the political backlash, you have little sympathy for the later.

If you read the post properly you will see that the poster talks of our past 'as murdering immigrants' which clearly refers to historical events of long ago.

As for more recent events, what I don't believe is that we can ignore or fail to act when terrorist acts such as 9/11 take place on Western soil for fear of future reprisals - do you suggest we just allow terrorists to 'win', hope they will just go away or just give in. If we do many more people will die in the long-term.

Mass Immigration is not any kind of solution as it only serves to allow more terrorists access to the West creating more danger for all of us us as we then have to fear attack from home grown terrorists - the enemy within - as well.

The West has every right to protect itself from terrorism.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Is that how you see yourself? It certainly isn't how I see myself. I fail to see what that has to do with current issues.

No, you have blocked that right out haven't you? It wasn't that long ago, think South Africa, Ireland the gulf and Libya it could be forgiven if we didn't keep doing it.

You brought up assimilating into other cultures... Have we ever done that?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

If you read the post properly you will see that the poster talks of our past 'as murdering immigrants' which clearly refers to historical events of long ago.

It doesn't you've chosen to look at it that way as it gives you an excuse to keep those blinkers firmly affixed.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

It doesn't you've chosen to look at it that way as it gives you an excuse to keep those blinkers firmly affixed.

As long as they aren't as firmly fixed as yours.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

As long as they aren't as firmly fixed as yours.

Out of interest what's your opinion on this?...

'The Allied Powers were aware of the scale of the Jewish Holocaust two-and-a-half years earlier than is generally assumed, and had even prepared war crimes indictments against Adolf Hitler and his top Nazi commanders.

Newly accessed material from the United Nations – not seen for around 70 years – shows that as early as December 1942, the US, UK and Soviet governments were aware that at least two million Jews had been murdered and a further five million were at risk of being killed, and were preparing charges. Despite this, the Allied Powers did very little to try and rescue or provide sanctuary to those in mortal danger.

Indeed, in March 1943, Viscount Cranborne, a minister in the war cabinet of Winston Churchill, said the Jews should not be considered a special case and that the British Empire was already too full of refugees to offer a safe haven to any more. '

That was very naughty of us wasn't it? and Winston was such a hero and all that :/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7688036.html

[Livia]

I thought after the Westminster attack, the Muslim community seems so much more animated than I'd seen them generally. They seemed immediately to be speaking out against these people who defile their own religion. I think that's what happens... things progress, communities speak out more freely, people realise more widely that all Muslims are not the same... and there's a bit more of a coming together. No one thinks all Muslims are terrorists apart from a few ultra-right wing lunatics. There's a lot of work being done in mosques and by the wider Muslim communities to counter radicalisation, I'd like to see that go further, encompassing Women's rights, for example.

[Kizzy]

I agree!!!!


Easter magic!

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I agree!!!!


Easter magic!

LOL... I'm down the rabbit hole....

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Livia

I thought after the Westminster attack, the Muslim community seems so much more animated than I'd seen them generally. They seemed immediately to be speaking out against these people who defile their own religion. I think that's what happens... things progress, communities speak out more freely, people realise more widely that all Muslims are not the same... and there's a bit more of a coming together. No one thinks all Muslims are terrorists apart from a few ultra-right wing lunatics. There's a lot of work being done in mosques and by the wider Muslim communities to counter radicalisation, I'd like to see that go further, encompassing Women's rights, for example.

I agree with all that. Regarding the BIB, I have to agree. I'm not one to tell people what they can and cannot wear at all for example but to me the Burka represents oppression of women. Why don't the men have to cover themselves from head to toe? Because, like in every bloody country/religion in history etc etc women have had to fight against oppression from men, this is no different imo