[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Nobody cares about the elderly which is a bit ironic as we will all be that person one day

Bit harsh, how do you know? I do others in the thread do plenty of people I know do, people do care... good job as the govt don't.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Welcome to private social/healthcare.

Oh please as if council run homes were any better

[ebandit]

...cool story bro.............but what about the thousands of unnamed/unknown

homeless dogs around europe/rest of the world.............

Mark L

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Oh please as if council run homes were any better

Probably as bad, I doubt they could be worse than some, but the difference is... When you're paying several thousand pounds a month for something (most have to sell their homes and spend their entire life's savings) it damn well should be a service of exceptional quality. People save up for their entire working lives, 50 years, hoping to have a nest egg to leave for their family and then it gets wiped out in a couple of years in a care home. It's tragic. It would be palatable if those homes were making them happy and comfortable and ensuring that their final days are good ones but they aren't... They're left miserable and stinking of their own piss... Mostly ignored by staff and sometimes straight up belittled, mocked, laughed at. Horrendous stuff.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Probably as bad, I doubt they could be worse than some, but the difference is... When you're paying several thousand pounds a month for something (most have to sell their homes and spend their entire life's savings) it damn well should be a service of exceptional quality. People save up for their entire working lives, 50 years, hoping to have a nest egg to leave for their family and then it gets wiped out in a couple of years in a care home. It's tragic. It would be palatable if those homes were making them happy and comfortable and ensuring that their final days are good ones but they aren't... They're left miserable and stinking of their own piss... Mostly ignored by staff and sometimes straight up belittled, mocked, laughed at. Horrendous stuff.

It's so sad, I really hope I never have to decide to put my own mother in a home. It would be an absolute last resort though....although saying that she's more healthy than i am probably

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Bit harsh, how do you know? I do others in the thread do plenty of people I know do, people do care... good job as the govt don't.

Yes Kizzy
before 2010
New Labour were Pathetic
Brown/Blair

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

It's so sad, I really hope I never have to decide to put my own mother in a home. It would be an absolute last resort though....although saying that she's more healthy than i am probably

My mother made me promise a few years back that if she ever 'lost herself' enough to need to have 24/7 care, I would help her kill herself. That was a lovely morbid conversation. She originally said would I actually murder her (pillow over face) but I said I would end up spending my life in prison that way. So she settled for me handing her some strong painkillers, and if that fails, to take her somewhere it would be easy to just...roll her wheelchair off/jump. She was being deadly serious too.

I would rather be gone than end up in a place like that so I understand where she is coming from but I would never ask my kids to help me

With my Gran...she was living with my mum and dad for a year or so but they absolutely had to put her in the home as she was a danger to herself. even if they both gave up work (which wasnt feasible at all) there was still the issue of nighttimes when everyone slept. Unless they took turns on day/nights which would mean they never saw each other. I mean, she nearly burnt the house down twice, was stashing MEAT under her bed, tried to down a bottle of bleach..just so many things that are no good :S My dad felt guilty still for putting her in the home though, even though realistically there wasn't another option

[Toy Soldier]

Not that it's an urgent issue right now I'd imagine Vicky... But just to prewarn you, if they think you've helped someone commit suicide you still might end up going to jail.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

My mother made me promise a few years back that if she ever 'lost herself' enough to need to have 24/7 care, I would help her kill herself. That was a lovely morbid conversation. She originally said would I actually murder her (pillow over face) but I said I would end up spending my life in prison that way. So she settled for me handing her some strong painkillers, and if that fails, to take her somewhere it would be easy to just...roll her wheelchair off/jump. She was being deadly serious too.

I would rather be gone than end up in a place like that so I understand where she is coming from but I would never ask my kids to help me

With my Gran...she was living with my mum and dad for a year or so but they absolutely had to put her in the home as she was a danger to herself. even if they both gave up work (which wasnt feasible at all) there was still the issue of nighttimes when everyone slept. Unless they took turns on day/nights which would mean they never saw each other. I mean, she nearly burnt the house down twice, was stashing MEAT under her bed, tried to down a bottle of bleach..just so many things that are no good :S My dad felt guilty still for putting her in the home though, even though realistically there wasn't another option

There was a case here actually just recently of someone being charged with assisting a relative because they arranged travel to one of those Swiss clinics where they assist terminally ill people kill themselves. I'm not sure where they would stand on assisting someone with dementia to do it though, probably couldn't as they would no longer be able to consent

Yeah, that's what i mean about my own mother unless she was actually a danger to herself there no way I would ever put her in a home. It feels so wrong to me, I couldn't even put my kids in creches when they were young

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Not that it's an urgent issue right now I'd imagine Vicky... But just to prewarn you, if they think you've helped someone commit suicide you still might end up going to jail.

That was my point. But she countered that with (if she was in a wheelchair and unable to help herself but 'all there' in the head) finding her some pills or something wouldn't bring suspicion on me :/ Which I countered with...well you could find your own bloody pills but she was adamant She then said if she wasn't 'all there' in the head and I pushed her over a cliff or something, that wouldn't be suspicious either as she could well have jumped...

Was such a strange convo and not one you want to have with your mother. I tried to put it all on my brother...as he is training to be a doctor so would be able to help much more than I could and she came back with...well your brother or sister would be hysterical and crying about it and upset where I know you understand this and you are 'cold' and I know you wouldn't let emotions get in the way

Edit. This brings me back (again) to euthanasia should be legal tbh. People could sign something earlier in life (like my mother) if they were adamant they didn't want to end up in that situation.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

That was my point. But she countered that with (if she was in a wheelchair and unable to help herself but 'all there' in the head) finding her some pills or something wouldn't bring suspicion on me :/ Which I countered with...well you could find your own bloody pills but she was adamant She then said if she wasn't 'all there' in the head and I pushed her over a cliff or something, that wouldn't be suspicious either as she could well have jumped...

Was such a strange convo and not one you want to have with your mother. I tried to put it all on my brother...as he is training to be a doctor so would be able to help much more than I could and she came back with...well your brother or sister would be hysterical and crying about it and upset where I know you understand this and you are 'cold' and I know you wouldn't let emotions get in the way

Edit. This brings me back (again) to euthanasia should be legal tbh. People could sign something earlier in life (like my mother) if they were adamant they didn't want to end up in that situation.

Yeah I agree, although you could imagine it could be open to abuse as well

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah I agree, although you could imagine it could be open to abuse as well

It could be...but if you need to get consent from 2 seperate doctors. And if someone decides early in life it can be countersigned (?) like wills are, where it is all above board and checked

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

It could be...but if you need to get consent from 2 seperate doctors. And if someone decides early in life it can be countersigned (?) like wills are, where it is all above board and checked

Yeah, there would have to be very tight conditions with it, maybe a psychological evaluation too

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Probably as bad, I doubt they could be worse than some, but the difference is... When you're paying several thousand pounds a month for something (most have to sell their homes and spend their entire life's savings) it damn well should be a service of exceptional quality. People save up for their entire working lives, 50 years, hoping to have a nest egg to leave for their family and then it gets wiped out in a couple of years in a care home. It's tragic. It would be palatable if those homes were making them happy and comfortable and ensuring that their final days are good ones but they aren't... They're left miserable and stinking of their own piss... Mostly ignored by staff and sometimes straight up belittled, mocked, laughed at. Horrendous stuff.

No other sector would put up with paying for something to be ill treated, it is a national scandal

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

No other sector would put up with paying for something to be ill treated, it is a national scandal

It's disgraceful and to the most vulnerable people in our society as well

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Cherie

No other sector would put up with paying for something to be ill treated, it is a national scandal

There's a website where you can view the official inspection reports for care homes, I can't remember what it's called, wife looked it up for the one her grandmother is in and its... Just awful stuff. "D" ratings in several areas and actually marked as failing in others with a threat of being shut down if no improvement.

But we looked up all the others in her grandmothers local area... The best and most expensive one was barely scraping "C" grades in most areas. I have no idea how they get away with it. Are these places really just so expensive to run that even with every resident paying in to £3000 a MONTH they're only just getting by? Or are there some fat cats who own these places who are making ridiculous profits whilst providing the bare minimum of service...

That said it can't even be just a money issue. Some things like the attitude of the staff and the cleanliness standards of the place could be improved with little or zero additional expense.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Oh please as if council run homes were any better

What makes you think they weren't... They were regulated and inspected, what safeguards have self regulating private facilities?

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

What makes you think they weren't... They were regulated and inspected, what safeguards have self regulating private facilities?

Private care homes are subject to the same inspections and regulations

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Private care homes are subject to the same inspections and regulations

Nope, they aren't. Sorry I'm not just being contrary there are people dying, being mistreated, assaulted and abused in private facilities up and down the country and the evidence is withheld, whistleblowers are gagged or sacked.

A market in social care was introduced, in part, as a way of keeping the costs of
state-funded social care under control. By restricting the funding available to
local authorities to provide care services at a time of increased need, successive
governments have forced local authorities to generate ‘efficiencies’ through
contracting with the lowest-cost operators in the independent sector.
This competition between providers to win contracts from local authorities on
a lowest-cost basis has driven down the quality of care in many instances to
the ‘minimum quality level allowed’. Indeed the current Care Minister, Norman
Lamb, has acknowledged that the current system ‘incentivises poor care, low
wages and neglect, often acting with little regard for the people it is supposed
to be looking after’

https://chpi.org.uk/wp-content/uploa...tober-2013.pdf