[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Fetch The Bolt Cutters

I feel like you’ve just completely missed the point here my love

Yeah her son had just died but she didn’t even really know him (not that she was to blame for that though)

Jill was his proper family and his maw had prevented them from being together when he passed away which was done out of nowt but spite so yeah so totally did deserve it

I’d have thrown in a slap for good measure meself

I didn't miss the point but it wasn't well written... it could have worked in a myriad of different ways - e.g. if the conversation had been a month later, it could have worked. If Jill had simply been furious/upset about not getting to be with him when he died, it could have worked. BUT she's literally only just found out that he's gone and she has a pre-prepared, cold and calculated take-down for someone who has just seen their child die? It's a narrative mis-step in the first place.

That aside... as she walks away the mum is all of a sudden apologetic and saying "I'm sorry... I didn't know..." which is so far from the realms of realism for how ANYONE would be reacting in that situation that it jumps the shark completely. Let alone a character who has been portrayed as being blinkered and bigoted up until this point... was Jill's speech so poignant that it would somehow reach a freshly-grieving mother and change her entire worldview? No... it's not realistic human psychology... she would be angry, broken and incredulous and tell Jill to go **** herself. Would that be fair or reasonable? No. SHOULD she be sorry for her attitudes and what they have lead to? Absolutely. But realistically, would she be, right there and then having only just heard it? Nope... no chance. Again to be realistic, she would have completely rejected the idea that it was her fault in that moment, and if you want a scene of her having absorbed it and accepted blame, it would come months later after sitting with it and hours of introspection. Even having her angry as Jill walked off, and then one little extra scene of Jill receiving an "I'm sorry, you were right" letter a while later, would have improved the writing there.

I know it's supposed to be a powerful scene but in terms of characterisation, it's not well written, which is a shame because the rest of the writing is brilliant.

[smudgie]

I can’t bring myself to watch this, too many painful memories.
But I am so pleased this series has been aired.

[Black Dagger]

Episode 3 just completly broke me.

This needs to be up for every single award in the 2022 season. If it doesn't win a BAFTA or Emmy I will be furious.

[Jake.]

Episode 3 broke me. Genuinely the most upsetting piece of television I’ve watched in a long time.

[Jarrod]

I'd already watched this in full a couple of weeks ago but I know Episode 3 aired tonight and it's the hardest out of them all. Completely unexpected as well, which made it worse.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Jarrod

I'd already watched this in full a couple of weeks ago but I know Episode 3 aired tonight and it's the hardest out of them all. Completely unexpected as well, which made it worse.

.

[joeysteele]

Really heavy going tonight.
Excellently acted out however.
Very strong series.

[Jake.]

Honestly can’t get over that episode

[Jake.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

There's still parts of every UK city where you'll get verbal abuse for being openly gay, and then physically assaulted if you say anything back. OK, yes, it's mainly pubs/bars that I personally wouldn't ever be in by choice anyway ... but the fact remains, I *could* go to those places openly with my wife and be perfectly safe, whereas my friend definitely could not go there with his husband. Not as an obvious couple. They've been together 10 years and married for four, and I've seen them have to pretend to just be friends in public depending on the area, not because something would "definitely" happen but because enough has happened in the past for it not to be worth the hassle. It makes me equal parts sad and very angry.

I'm not saying it's not a hell of a lot better in the UK than in many other countries, the vast majority of places you would ever actually WANT to go are safe, but it's certainly not 100% "fine to be gay in the UK" quite yet.

Also you said "the West" not just the UK and there are huge parts of the US that are still heavily blinkered hardcore Christian and being openly gay would not be the most comfortable life.

Also you put it better than I could have

[Jack_]

La!

I want that to become a thing in my life

[Jack_]

This was great but (understandably) miserable

Pissing in Thatcher’s tea was quality content though <3

[Beso]

It dont even have a decent soundtrack.

[Black Dagger]

ok if that's all you're taking from the show that's thought provoking, captivating, heart warming and heart breaking all at the same time x

[Beso]

No provocation from me, I'm still watching it atm even though there are no songs from the 80s interludes.

[Shaun]

Just binged the first three episodes and... well... I've been needing a good cry all week so that was a hell of a smack of catharsis.

Spoiler:

I actually curled up into a ball lmao... obviously Colin's death is heartbreaking in and of itself, but the way his mother was subject to abuse (the **** through the letterbox), the legal rigamarole, and just 100% supportive even when he was going senile and masturbating in the hospital bed (bye )... ugh my heart broke specifically for her, and so many other mums and sisters out there (and, dare I say, even the occasional dad or brother) who weren't judgmental, weren't burning their dead sons' possessions out of shame and disgust, or fear of contagion... weren't calling them dirty queers, but just... loved their sons.

Ugh... the AIDS crisis just absolutely breaks my heart whatever the manner of media I digest it through is. So, so many bright and talented and beautiful people just... gone, in their prime. I can't think about it for too long without crying but it's just so important to commemorate these people.

I was thinking "...that guy Colin's moved in with, bet they're gonna shag " and then nothing happened... so to see that all play back was a moment of "I bloody knew it " at least

LOVE Roscoe and Jill... loved Henry too, especially since I actually find Neil Patrick Harris a little insufferable, but he was fantastic in this even if only for a brief episode. Soundtrack is fantastic, naturally, but the acting is superb from pretty much everyone.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Shaun

Just binged the first three episodes and... well... I've been needing a good cry all week so that was a hell of a smack of catharsis.

Spoiler:

I actually curled up into a ball lmao... obviously Colin's death is heartbreaking in and of itself, but the way his mother was subject to abuse (the **** through the letterbox), the legal rigamarole, and just 100% supportive even when he was going senile and masturbating in the hospital bed (bye )... ugh my heart broke specifically for her, and so many other mums and sisters out there (and, dare I say, even the occasional dad or brother) who weren't judgmental, weren't burning their dead sons' possessions out of shame and disgust, or fear of contagion... weren't calling them dirty queers, but just... loved their sons.

Ugh... the AIDS crisis just absolutely breaks my heart whatever the manner of media I digest it through is. So, so many bright and talented and beautiful people just... gone, in their prime. I can't think about it for too long without crying but it's just so important to commemorate these people.

I was thinking "...that guy Colin's moved in with, bet they're gonna shag " and then nothing happened... so to see that all play back was a moment of "I bloody knew it " at least

LOVE Roscoe and Jill... loved Henry too, especially since I actually find Neil Patrick Harris a little insufferable, but he was fantastic in this even if only for a brief episode. Soundtrack is fantastic, naturally, but the acting is superb from pretty much everyone.

....Jill’s mum was such a wonderful lady as well...she was played by the ‘real life’ Jill as well, which is pretty lovely.....


...yeah, you would have needed that cry....I often find that I’m drawn to sad things when I’m feeling low because they do give release as well...

[UserSince2005]

I always did wonder what happened to years and years

[joeysteele]

This was really a powerful and heartbreaking series.
Superbly acted.
One of the best things on TV for ages.

Just so sad.

[Jack_]

Oh also why is Ritchie Tozer like the perfect gay

[Black Dagger]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Oh also why is Ritchie Tozer like the perfect gay

I mean he's extremely flawed.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Black Dagger

I mean he's extremely flawed.

Not aesthetically m’love!

[Jarrod]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Oh also why is Ritchie Tozer like the perfect gay

I mean, I'd probably say he's more the "stereotypical" and accepted gay image, which sucks to say.

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Not aesthetically m’love!

Meh! He's no Nathaniel Hall

[Glenn.]

Well I’ve just done all 5 episodes the last couple of days. It broke me tbh

[Rob!]

I binged the whole lot in a night when it dropped on All 4 which probably wasn't the wisest move psychologically, but my God, what a series. Broke me. Amazing. Russel T Davies is a genius.