[Raph]

Originally Posted by Thea

The object of the game is to win 100K.

No one has ever won every comp from day one so social manipulation and social power/sway do count. Those are the parts of the game that interest me the most. My jaw dropped at how many different things she could say to different people and still keep track. Having said that, it is almost impossible to win BB without winning comps at the end. Don't most F2s include a goat?

I don't see how BB can be ALL about social game when social game can't produce a win. Ika NEEDED Demetres. Together, Ika and Demetres were a great player. Apart from each other neither would have lasted to F4. They carried each other. Nobody carried Kevin.

William used the veto because of Kevin's social game. Every single member of the jury gave Kevin their vote. All of them.

Many people have claimed the jury was bitter against Ika and Demetres. Well I guess their social game wasn't very good because even though Kevin got Dillon out Dillon wasn't bitter. William wasn't bitter even though Kevin didn't throw him a vote during the triple. Dre gave Kevin her vote even though she was super pissed at him and never trusted him during the game.

Having a great social game isn't just about being an excellent manipulator.

Ika is a mean girl and proud of it. That isn't something I respect. Brilliant as Ika's game was, I didn't like it. It was great television. Ika is the break-out star. She just didn't get there in a way that I respect.

Kevin made some mistakes that practically had me tearing my hair out but none of his mistakes were fatal. He won the game.

Because of Ika's mistakes she lost the game.

The better player is the one who manages to win the game despite their mistakes. That would be Kevin.

Completely agree, really well said. Ika was great at the manipulation portion of this game -- but really only up until Neda's eviction in my opinion. During and after Neda's eviction she became the cocky mean girl that Neda was painted as beforehand; it's almost like she took Neda's role. The way she treated Jackie alone to me deems her as a bad player - she was NEVER going to get Jackie's vote in a million years (someone who had no close bonds to any one other than Neda) so that's already a fatal flaw in Ika's game.

Agreed though, she was great, and up until Neda's eviction I definitely saw her as the best player of the series.

Originally Posted by DrunkerThanMoses

White and has a penis

It's so true, like why is Bruno hated when he literally didn't do anything wrong at all (nobody quote me by getting rid of the 'wrong', that would be hella basic).. but yeah Bruno was a lovely man and father - a true gent and gamer throughout yet he gets a lot of hate online. If Demetres wasn't working with Ika... i'm sure he would've gotten a LOT of hate as well, as he did in the beginning of the game!

[Raph]

Neda came 3rd and 11th
Ika came 4th and 12th

So Neda is the superior player statistically #QueenstaysQueen

[Headie]

Neda was not even safe for an hour lmao

[Dominic]

Do statistics really matter if Neda had immunity for five weeks?

[Jason.]

Entertainment/personality > gameplay

Ika wins.

[Cal.]

Ika is the superior player when taking everything else into account however!

[Cal.]

Ika, Cass and Gary are all on pretty much the same levels statistically

[LemonJam]

Re: Kevin hate his queerbaiting was just a big no-no for me. Otherwise he's just not very entertaining to me. After William left his entire thing was "I'm alone in this game" "I have to win this comp" and "I've been studying so hard" which is hardly riveting television unless you're a die-hard Kevin fan.

[Cal.]

One of the only things I liked about Kevin was that he put respect on Ika Wong's name.

[Dominic]

Originally Posted by Raph

like why is Bruno hated when he literally didn't do anything wrong at all (nobody quote me by getting rid of the 'wrong', that would be hella basic).. but yeah Bruno was a lovely man and father - a true gent and gamer throughout yet he gets a lot of hate online. If Demetres wasn't working with Ika... i'm sure he would've gotten a LOT of hate as well, as he did in the beginning of the game!

Bruno was smug and self-righteous, Demetres wasn't.

[Jason.]

I didn't even mind Kevin at first (I hadn't seen season 3 but he came across perfectly fine in the first week or two) then he fell into the background for the rest of the (highly entertaining) pre-jury and then came out after all his allies were culled consecutively whilst still managing to be dull, even with the forced underdog/lone wolf edit. So yeah, LJ summed it up perfectly.

[JerseyWins]

Originally Posted by DrunkerThanMoses

White and has a penis

Pass the tea

[JerseyWins]

Kevin's end-game is when I truly started to get behind him as a character a lot more. Before that I more or less liked him for the people he was aligned with and maybe a moment here and there but found him kinda boring/basic overall. Kevin is great in the underdog role. Great thrill to end the season with that comp run.

Also, I gotta give credit where it's due, Ika had some Ikonic moments on the season so I kinda appreciated her by the end.

Originally Posted by Raph

It's so true, like why is Bruno hated when he literally didn't do anything wrong at all (nobody quote me by getting rid of the 'wrong', that would be hella basic).. but yeah Bruno was a lovely man and father - a true gent and gamer throughout yet he gets a lot of hate online. If Demetres wasn't working with Ika... i'm sure he would've gotten a LOT of hate as well, as he did in the beginning of the game!

Yeah, you nailed it - Bruno's great. Sympathetic towards Neda for the treatment she got from Ika/Demetres & the crowd, very caring to everyone in the house... just an overall laid back and really good guy.

[Mandie]

My final thoughts:

I really dislike Neda after this season and it shocks me. I thought that after she left we would see a different side of her. I just feel like she thinks shes better than anyone else. I do agree with Arissa that Neda loves the game but for me she just leaves me cold.

Not a fan of Kevins. I just dont find him entertaining at all. But I will say he did win the game - as in it wasnt handed to him and he did everything right to secure that win.

If the final had come down to Karen and Demetres I would like to see how jury would have voted. Had they choose Karen then their comments about the most deserved player are crap. I like Karen but Demetres was a far superior player

I actually enjoyed Ika, while she never won a comp she did what was needed to stay in the house and was entertaining. Jackie was so boring and whiney all the time

I dont really have an issue with Bruno although I get hes not the most memorable. But I dont see a reason for the hate on him.

Overall I thought it was just an ok season. Had some of the players evicted first lasted longer I think it would have been much better. I also felt a lot of the episodes were filled with random stuff when some of the stuff in the live feeds should have been there.

I hope next season has either all vets or all newbies. IMO Neda getting that safety really was unfair - to both Neda and the newbies. I would have liked to see how the season would have played out otherwise.

[reece(:]

Youtube video

[Thea]

Originally Posted by Brenda.

Do statistics really matter if Neda had immunity for five weeks?

Immunity did not save Neda at all during the first five weeks.

Sindy may have saved Neda week 1 by turning Karen's attention to the big guys.

Week 2 Demetres was the HoH. There was no way he would have targeted Neda. Big guys go after big guys and that is what Demetres did. He put up Dillon and Emily, backdoored Dallas. No way would he have wasted his HoH on Neda.

Week 3 Neda was HoH. She obviously wouldn't have put herself up regardless of whether or not she had immunity.

Week 4 was backwards week. The house would not have put up Neda at that point. Dre and Gary were put up. Gary was the target because he is a comp beast. Demetres as HoH evicted Gary.

Week 5 William was the first HoH and he wouldn't have put up Neda. He had no reason to.

Neda kept Neda safe those five weeks not her special immunity.

[Macie Lightfoot]

I mean..... Neda was granted immunity for five weeks and decided to win a **** ton of comps and alienate most of the house to the point where she was evicted as soon as her immunity expired. I didn't think it needed to be explained but I think that's the point Hayden and Brenda were making.

[Calderyon]

As much as i like Neda, I do think she should have just laid low for those 5 weeks instead of winning comps when she didn´t need to.

Kind of a Daniele Donato effect.

[Jason.]

That immunity pass was a shit idea regardless of who got it, especially in a vet vs. newbie season where it was clearly done just so a vet (Neda) could get it.

[Macie Lightfoot]

Originally Posted by LemonJam

Re: Kevin hate his queerbaiting was just a big no-no for me. Otherwise he's just not very entertaining to me. After William left his entire thing was "I'm alone in this game" "I have to win this comp" and "I've been studying so hard" which is hardly riveting television unless you're a die-hard Kevin fan.

I think the queerbaiting is even ****tier when you remenver that BBCan3 came immediately following BB16 and Zankie

[Raph]

Originally Posted by Jason.

That immunity pass was a shit idea regardless of who got it, especially in a vet vs. newbie season where it was clearly done just so a vet (Neda) could get it.

Yep it is officially the most unfair BBCAN twist of all time.. most unfair top three imo in regards to twists ruining a great player's game:

1. Nedas immunity BBCAN5
2. Brittnee's POV evicting Bruno BBCAN3
3. Topaz' nomination talks being exposed to everyone BBCAN1

In each occassion the potential winner of that season lost because of the twist, so annoying - the only bad thing about big brother Canada.

[Thea]

Yet Neda's immunity did nothing for her. The first week she didn't have immunity, that was during Karen's HoH. The next week Demetres was HoH and he was after big guys not Neda. Then she was HoH herself. another week was backwards week. There was not a single week that Neda was safe due to her immunity.

[Macie Lightfoot]

I thought we went over this already, but...

Originally Posted by Macie Lightfoot

I mean..... Neda was granted immunity for five weeks and decided to win a **** ton of comps and alienate most of the house to the point where she was evicted as soon as her immunity expired. I didn't think it needed to be explained but I think that's the point Hayden and Brenda were making.

[JerseyWins]

But she used those weeks to take out the people who were most strongly against her... so it's not like she won a few comps (and influenced others' decisions in other weeks) for no reason.

[Thea]

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

But she used those weeks to take out the people who were most strongly against her... so it's not like she won a few comps (and influenced others' decisions in other weeks) for no reason.

Yes, but she would have been just as safe without the immunity. Winning the immunity didn't save her one single week.

The immunity was not her downfall either. She played poorly. She shouldn't have alienated Ika by showing anger at her over the Cass incident. That is what set Ika at her. Neda was so frustrated at Ika calling her an emotional player but Neda let her own emotions get the better of her.

Neda also failed to reel in Jackie sooner. After Cass and Dre betrayed her Jackie was a lost puppy. Neda should have worked harder on her personal relationship with Sindy. Neda's head was so far into the game that she failed to have any kind of personal relationship with anyone. She was so determined not to have another "Jon" that she left Sindy floating. Very early on it was obvious that there was Kevin and Bruno, Ika and Demetres, with Neda and Sindy "left over". Sindy saved Neda week one by deflecting Karen to take out big guys. Neda could have made an effort to get closer to William. Neda was game game game but missed one of the most important elements. Personal relationships. Kevin was tight with Bruno and William.

Week one doesn't count because it happens so fast the person voted out is just an easy target. But, after week one, everyone who left did so because they made a game mistake and that is true of every week beyond the first and it includes Ika and Demetres.

Kevin also made game mistakes, but when it counted the most, he didn't make mistakes. He won.

Also, Kevin didn't win those last comps by a hairs breath, he won them by a lot.

Demetres and Ika lost because they didn't study nearly enough. They knew how hard Kevin was studying. His winning the comps was a foreseeable consequence of his studying a lot and them not studying enough.