[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ithinkiloveyoutoo

It's giving B613 "get rid of her" job



loaves and fishes naperville

Scary. Does it say how she died?

[Ammi]

…she apparently had a known ongoing chronic medical condition before her ‘unexpected death’…those two thing don’t seem to gel…having a chronic illness would generally indicate a death wouldn’t be an unexpected thing…but these are big people with big power so I guess cause of death could (..potentially…)…be anything that was required for it to be…

[Ammi]

…Greenland’s own version of the MAGA hat…

https://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/greenland-maga-hat

Spoiler:

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

…she apparently had a known ongoing chronic medical condition before her ‘unexpected death’…those two thing don’t seem to gel…having a chronic illness would generally indicate a death wouldn’t be an unexpected thing…but these are big people with big power so I guess of death could (..potentially…)…be anything that was required to be…

Very fishy indeed

[bots]

i actually think the security leak was a setup. In the messages Vance and the defense secretary were busy saying how europe should have been made to pay for the attack. They wanted that message to get out

[Beso]

Not sure what this has to do with Donald Trump?

[bots]

Originally Posted by Beso

Not sure what this has to do with Donald Trump?

it's his hand picked administration

[Quantum Boy]

Originally Posted by bots

i actually think the security leak was a setup. In the messages Vance and the defense secretary were busy saying how europe should have been made to pay for the attack. They wanted that message to get out

My literal first thought before I even read anything about it - my wife said, did you hear about someone from the press being accidentally included in a message chain in US... I said "nah, can only have been on purpose".

They want us to believe that they're incompetent but it's engneered incompetence with very specific purposes. It's the entire Trump playbook. Play dumb. You can see it filtering down though his leuitenants and all the way to his followers too (with mixed effect, some people are better at it than others).

[bots]

Originally Posted by Quantum Boy

My literal first thought before I even read anything about it - my wife said, did you hear about someone from the press being accidentally included in a message chain in US... I said "nah, can only have been on purpose".

They want us to believe that they're incompetent but it's engneered incompetence with very specific purposes. It's the entire Trump playbook. Play dumb. You can see it filtering down though his leuitenants and all the way to his followers too (with mixed effect, some people are better at it than others).

if the Houthi had been pre-warned, the reporter would have been executed for treason, there was no way that was going to leak. Unfortunately, the dems are being led by the nose and foaming at the mouth

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Quantum Boy

My literal first thought before I even read anything about it - my wife said, did you hear about someone from the press being accidentally included in a message chain in US... I said "nah, can only have been on purpose".

They want us to believe that they're incompetent but it's engneered incompetence with very specific purposes. It's the entire Trump playbook. Play dumb. You can see it filtering down though his leuitenants and all the way to his followers too (with mixed effect, some people are better at it than others).

..so is it a purposeful distraction from Jessica Aber’s ‘unexpected death’…?….in your opinion, of course…

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Ammi

…Greenland’s own version of the MAGA hat…

https://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/greenland-maga-hat

Spoiler:

brilliant, now I would buy one of those

[Quantum Boy]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..so is it a purposeful distraction from Jessica Aber’s ‘unexpected death’…?….in your opinion, of course…

Maybe in part, I think the clues on motivation lie more in the content of the leak than the simple fact that a leak occurred; there was built-in plausible deniability for the main players ("Trump knew nothing about any of this" for example) and "interestingly" plenty of rhetoric in "leaked" material dogwhistling about the strength of the US and apparent-weakness of Europe.

What I think is "worrying" (though not really in the sense that it's entirely unsurprising at this point) is that because I don't believe for a second that the use of unsecured channels was due to incompetence or negligence, and the risk/likelihood of foreign powers (China/Russia) also being able to intercept these communications regardless of "press leaking"... one has to assume that said foreign powers were already (knowingly) aware of any information or plans contained in those messages.

Basically I see an awful low of smoke and mirrors/play acting for public consumption, and that seems more and more obvious across politics these days. Perhaps it was always the way, of course. It's just becoming blatant to the extent that I think the public/support bases themselves actively play along. Really bizarre times.

[bots]

the other thing is that the Trump administration doesn't care if people think the lady was murdered. It's straight out of the oops fell out of a window Putin playbook. Trump was given a free hand by the supreme court to do anything he wants, legal or not

[Crimson Dynamo]

A former US attorney found dead at home at the age of 43 had reportedly been suffering
from a longstanding medical issue.

Jessica Aber, once the top prosecutor in the Eastern District of Virginia, was found
unresponsive in her Washington DC home on Saturday. She likely died from natural
causes, police believe.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...inia-home.html

[Quantum Boy]

Originally Posted by bots

the other thing is that the Trump administration doesn't care if people think the lady was murdered. It's straight out of the oops fell out of a window Putin playbook. Trump was given a free hand by the supreme court to do anything he wants, legal or not

Agreed, the Trump support base will either believe the denial, or believe that it was justified and pretend to believe the denial. There's no realistic possibility of any accountability so it doesn't really matter what happened, they'll write their own story and that will be the official story by default.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Quantum Boy

Maybe in part, I think the clues on motivation lie more in the content of the leak than the simple fact that a leak occurred; there was built-in plausible deniability for the main players ("Trump knew nothing about any of this" for example) and "interestingly" plenty of rhetoric in "leaked" material dogwhistling about the strength of the US and apparent-weakness of Europe.

What I think is "worrying" (though not really in the sense that it's entirely unsurprising at this point) is that because I don't believe for a second that the use of unsecured channels was due to incompetence or negligence, and the risk/likelihood of foreign powers (China/Russia) also being able to intercept these communications regardless of "press leaking"... one has to assume that said foreign powers were already (knowingly) aware of any information or plans contained in those messages.

Basically I see an awful low of smoke and mirrors/play acting for public consumption, and that seems more and more obvious across politics these days. Perhaps it was always the way, of course. It's just becoming blatant to the extent that I think the public/support bases themselves actively play along. Really bizarre times.

…(…thank you for the response, I appreciate it…)…strangely I was just thinking a lot recently myself about whether politics has always been this way….because it does as you say, feel like bizarre times but then in catching up with some of the Black Mirror stories atm…they feel uncomfortably close to real life or what could be, you know…real life is getting uncomfortably lose to them, I don’t know which way around it is…(…I’m thinking…)…that it probably has always been that way but it’s just that media and information has changed so much, it’s like on instant dial up …I mean, things like the expenses scandal for instance and how long until the public had any knowledge of most of it in comparison to now and public knowledge is made instant through a combination of SM and mainstream media…but they’re not working with each other, they’re completely different species and they’re competing against each other…and fact over the years has become more rare but less important because it’s more just what they can put out there and create mass belief in…

[Quantum Boy]

Originally Posted by Ammi

…(…thank you for the response, I appreciate it…)…strangely I was just thinking a lot recently myself about whether politics has always been this way….because it does as you say, feel like bizarre times but then in catching up with some of the Black Mirror stories atm…they feel uncomfortably close to real life or what could be, you know…real life is getting uncomfortably lose to them, I don’t know which way around it is…(…I’m thinking…)…that it probably has always been that way but it’s just that media and information has changed so much, it’s like on instant dial up …I mean, things like the expenses scandal for instance and how long until the public had any knowledge of most of it in comparison to now and public knowledge is made instant through a combination of SM and mainstream media…but they’re not working with each other, they’re completely different species and they’re competing against each other…and fact over the years has become more rare but less important because it’s more just what they can put out there and create mass belief in…

I think it probably has always been this way, I think the truly fascinating thing that's emerged recently for me is that ... in the past it was assumed that it was this way, and propaganda was a problem because it was successfully "hoodwinking" people. In the Internet era where everyone is much more aware, what seems pretty clear to me is that ... that's not the case at all -- and maybe it never was. While it does happen, I don't think people being "tricked" by propaganda and the oratory and gameplaying is the whole story - I think people are fully aware of what they're seeing, and actively choosing to play along and copy/paste/further the rhetoric because it aligns with what they already on a personal level wanted to happen. Everyone gaslighting each other on a massive scale.

"Can't you see the problem wi..."
"NO I CAN'T"
"But you must concede that"
"NO, WRONG!!!"

Or rather, tl;dr I think most Trump supporters (and supporters of whoever) know that their favourite politicians are perched on thrones of lies, but they like the effect he has on "their enemy" so they #1 do not care and #2 actively play into it.

In the information era it's all just so open and blatant.

[Glenn.]

Blanket silence from TiBB MAGA

[bots]

In our relatively recent history, we had 2 world wars where the radio was used to spread disinformation. After the war we had Russia and China making up all sorts of disinformation and the west responded (to a degree) in kind. One of the famous ones was Regans star wars program which was 100% fiction

So what I am basically saying, disinformation has always been with us, and the side that usually wins that argument, is the side that won the war/battle etc etc

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Quantum Boy

I think it probably has always been this way, I think the truly fascinating thing that's emerged recently for me is that ... in the past it was assumed that it was this way, and propaganda was a problem because it was successfully "hoodwinking" people. In the Internet era where everyone is much more aware, what seems pretty clear to me is that ... that's not the case at all -- and maybe it never was. While it does happen, I don't think people being "tricked" by propaganda and the oratory and gameplaying is the whole story - I think people are fully aware of what they're seeing, and actively choosing to play along and copy/paste/further the rhetoric because it aligns with what they already on a personal level wanted to happen. Everyone gaslighting each other on a massive scale.

"Can't you see the problem wi..."
"NO I CAN'T"
"But you must concede that"
"NO, WRONG!!!"

Or rather, tl;dr I think most Trump supporters (and supporters of whoever) know that their favourite politicians are perched on thrones of lies, but they like the effect he has on "their enemy" so they #1 do not care and #2 actively play into it.

In the information era it's all just so open and blatant.

…I think also that there’s an element of ….when the public don’t like what they’re seeing …if it jars in any way with their beliefs etc…then it can just be dismissed as ‘fake news’ so events and facts and false information or ‘adjusted I formation’ is all just made to fit by the person receiving it…the key is divisiveness, isn’t it…because divided always weakened so that power could be gained and that’s the principal and foundation of things like ‘cult mindsets as well’….divide those minds from information/from reality and then you have power over them…I mean, that’s an extreme thing but it’s a similar principal…

[Quantum Boy]

Originally Posted by bots

In our relatively recent history, we had 2 world wars where the radio was used to spread disinformation. After the war we had Russia and China making up all sorts of disinformation and the west responded (to a degree) in kind. One of the famous ones was Regans star wars program which was 100% fiction

So what I am basically saying, disinformation has always been with us, and the side that usually wins that argument, is the side that won the war/battle etc etc

I agree it's always been with us, as above though I just think what's clearer than ever, to put it much more simply, is that for the mostpart people will believe what they want to believe, and brand what they don't want to believe to be false. It has very little to do with objective reality and everything to do with sociology and "feelings".

It gets more complicated when you factor in global communications of course - the "spread" is no longer local, not to the same extent anyway, hence why we have so many in the UK so firmly immersed in US-centric propaganda (and why it spreads so easily to other nations).


As an aside thought; it seems clear to me that if the 1930's Nazi's had been broadcasting freely on British radiowaves in English we'd have been in big fkn trouble.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by bots

In our relatively recent history, we had 2 world wars where the radio was used to spread disinformation. After the war we had Russia and China making up all sorts of disinformation and the west responded (to a degree) in kind. One of the famous ones was Regans star wars program which was 100% fiction

So what I am basically saying, disinformation has always been with us, and the side that usually wins that argument, is the side that won the war/battle etc etc

…disinformation has always been there, I agree…but the world has changed and it’s much more divisive and ‘tribal’…I think that disinformation may have always been there but it’s never been so ‘weaponised’ as it is in current times…and also not so much on fast speed, either…click, click, click etc…which is so much quicker than your carrier pigeon days, bots……

[bots]

i think the difference between now and 70 years ago is that while communication was pretty quick over the radio, the feedback loop was slow and therefore inertia took a while to build. Now feedback is near instant and that creates inertia that feeds echo chambers which puts the whole thing on an entirely new level. All Trump had to do recently was speak a couple of sentences and the world went in to hyperdrive. That just wouldn't have happened previously, even 20 years ago.

[Quantum Boy]

Originally Posted by bots

i think the difference between now and 70 years ago is that while communication was pretty quick over the radio, the feedback loop was slow and therefore inertia took a while to build. Now feedback is near instant and that creates inertia that feeds echo chambers which puts the whole thing on an entirely new level. All Trump had to do recently was speak a couple of sentences and the world went in to hyperdrive. That just wouldn't have happened previously, even 20 years ago.

Yes and the quick feedback loop also lets them adjust and tweak the message extremely quickly and measure the effects, to adjust and tweak again, in the space of hours when it once would have taken days, and not all that long before that, weeks/months. It's only going to get more pronounced as AI continues to improve; I don't think the robots are going to take over the world, but what they can do is gather and analyse data for people at almost-instant speeds ... this has never been possible before in all of history. You could literally take in depth, detailed, written-out feedback from millions of people, have AI process it and have a 2000 word summary of "people's general thoughts" within minutes. No polls needed, no trying to frame the question, no one having to put together the data and analyse it... you can just say "Read through all of these documents and tell me in general what people think about _______" and you have that info immediately. We're at the tip of an absolutely massive iceberg.

to make things even more complicated (and what we've seen repeatedly recently) is the clear realisation that markets also react at lightning speed. A few sentences here and there from someone with huge influence can have global markets all over the place.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I wonder if in the not-too-distant future we will have AI members and not even know