[arista]

This is Not Good for the Business
Spike


Ref: BBCWorld News Live


http://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/18/en...tt-smith-feat/

[Crimson Dynamo]

Jada Pinkett Smith and Spike Lee announced they would not be attending the awards night on 28 February over a lack of diversity among nominees.

ie they are all white for the second year running


"We cannot support it and [I] mean no disrespect ... But, how is it possible for the second consecutive year all 20 contenders under the acting category are white? And let's not even get into the other branches," Lee wrote on Instagram. "Forty white actors in two years and no flava at all. We can't act?! WTF!!"



“The Academy Awards is not where the ‘real’ battle is,” wrote Lee. “It’s in the executive office of the Hollywood studios and TV and cable networks. This is where the gate keepers decide what gets made and what gets jettisoned to ‘turnaround’ or scrap heap. This is what’s important. The gate keepers. Those with ‘the green light’ vote.”

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/arts...40629193553a3f

-----------------------------------


Just a coincidence or rampant racism?

[Mokka]

They aren't wrong.

There is a trend in Hollywood to make movies and tv look diverse by casting background non-speaking roles with a variety of race and colour...or making the side kick to the main character a person of colour, but leading roles are predominantly white. And speaking roles are predominantly white.... And roles that could give an actor or an actress the opportunity to win an award such as an Oscar...are given to white people.

Statistics have been calculated on this issue and the numbers don't lie.

[Toy Soldier]

It's more complicated than that, really. There is quite a bit of fairly well documented racism in Hollywood; but that's not to say that brilliant performances are overlooked for Oscars when they happen.

The problem is... stripped right back to the bare bones... for various cultural reasons, white people make up the biggest chunk of box office numbers. Therefore, more movies are made with higher budgets featuring a certain demographic of people, to engage a certain demographic in the audience.

Of course, this is circular: White people are more interested in Cinema because Cinema is mostly white... other racial groups are less likely to be as interested because they aren't represented... and then we go back to the reverse; they aren't represented because they aren't as interested. Turn turn turn turn turn.

Of course if you take it right back to the beginning of "the movies", it all began because the Silver Screen was basically all-white. But there's not really much you can do about history... it is what it is.

So, this statement:

“The Academy Awards is not where the ‘real’ battle is,” wrote Lee. “It’s in the executive office of the Hollywood studios and TV and cable networks. This is where the gate keepers decide what gets made and what gets jettisoned to ‘turnaround’ or scrap heap. This is what’s important. The gate keepers. Those with ‘the green light’ vote.”

Is very true. But it's NOT because those execs and "gatekeepers" are racist. They don't decide to scrap shows or to not put money into making any film or show because they're "just racist". They scrap shows that aren't getting viewers and therefore aren't making money. It's that simple. If there's a show with a mainly black cast that's making a fortune then the execs are going to lap it up. If a show (any show) is failing then they'll pull the plug. ALL they care about is numbers and $$$.

[Jamie89]

The whole industry has a big problem where race is concerned, but it starts with casting. Boycotting the Oscars will bring attention to the problem, but if they really want to make a difference they'll need to do more than not spend one evening walking up and down a red carpet. Wasn't there a film recently, I think it was Exodus, where the whole cast was white (playing non-white characters).

The Oscars are just representing the fact that there are so few films that cast non-white actors, and it would be wrong for them to not recognise the actors that have done well over the past year (so I don't think they are inherently racist). Instead they, as a ceremony, are simply the end result of a problem, rather than being the cause of the problem.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Isnt it that if they cast the main characters as black they think they will lose money and so..

or is that just what TS said?

[Toy Soldier]

I just feel bad for ol' Leo. All these years waiting for an Oscar... all the memes and jokes online... it finally looks like he's going to win one...

...and it'll go down in history as "The Racist Oscar".

[Mokka]

But Jamie my friend, the Oscars are THE event for these celebrities each year... And boycott and protest are powerful tools used to bring an issue from the background to the forethought of people's minds, to encourage discussion and debate...like we are having here

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I just feel bad for ol' Leo. All these years waiting for an Oscar... all the memes and jokes online... it finally looks like he's going to win one...

...and it'll go down in history as "The Racist Oscar".

[Northern Monkey]

But if there has'nt been any Oscar worthy performances by black actors then what are they supposed to do?Drop an actor that has been nominated on merit just to seem PC?

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Isnt it that if they cast the main characters as black they think they will lose money and so..

or is that just what TS said?

In fewer words, yeah . There are far fewer "bankable" lead actors from other ethnicities than white, is the sad fact. Will Smith has been a notable exception, occasionally Denzel Washington but he's more bankable in "secondary lead" supporting roles.

Like I said it's all about the dallarz$$$ for the moviemakers, they're not choosing their leads based on anything else. It's pure supply and demand. Maybe it does indicate some low-level subconscious racism amoungst "moviegoers", but like I said, it's more likely to do with the demographic. Enjoyment of movies is about escapism, wish-fulfillment, or empathy. The audience needs to be able to put themselves into the shoes of the characters for this to work well. It's easiest for people to put themselves in the shoes of "similar people".

[Niamh.]

He has a point

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

In fewer words, yeah . There are far fewer "bankable" lead actors from other ethnicities than white, is the sad fact. Will Smith has been a notable exception, occasionally Denzel Washington but he's more bankable in "secondary lead" supporting roles.

Like I said it's all about the dallarz$$$ for the moviemakers, they're not choosing their leads based on anything else. It's pure supply and demand. Maybe it does indicate some low-level subconscious racism amoungst "moviegoers", but like I said, it's more likely to do with the demographic. Enjoyment of movies is about escapism, wish-fulfillment, or empathy. The audience needs to be able to put themselves into the shoes of the characters for this to work well. It's easiest for people to put themselves in the shoes of "similar people".

Also Morgan Freeman

He was excellent in Pulp Fiction with Travolta

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Also Morgan Freeman

He was excellent in Pulp Fiction with Travolta

ffs

Actually though, Morgan Freeman and Samuel L. Jackson are both prime examples of exactly what I was saying:

Both very successful, very well known actors. And both mainly... playing the "second lead" or a high-profile supporting role. I mean, there's "Snakes On A Plane" but... well...

[Mokka]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It's more complicated than that, really. There is quite a bit of fairly well documented racism in Hollywood; but that's not to say that brilliant performances are overlooked for Oscars when they happen.

The problem is... stripped right back to the bare bones... for various cultural reasons, white people make up the biggest chunk of box office numbers. Therefore, more movies are made with higher budgets featuring a certain demographic of people, to engage a certain demographic in the audience.

Of course, this is circular: White people are more interested in Cinema because Cinema is mostly white... other racial groups are less likely to be as interested because they aren't represented... and then we go back to the reverse; they aren't represented because they aren't as interested. Turn turn turn turn turn.

Of course if you take it right back to the beginning of "the movies", it all began because the Silver Screen was basically all-white. But there's not really much you can do about history... it is what it is.

So, this statement:

“The Academy Awards is not where the ‘real’ battle is,” wrote Lee. “It’s in the executive office of the Hollywood studios and TV and cable networks. This is where the gate keepers decide what gets made and what gets jettisoned to ‘turnaround’ or scrap heap. This is what’s important. The gate keepers. Those with ‘the green light’ vote.”

Is very true. But it's NOT because those execs and "gatekeepers" are racist. They don't decide to scrap shows or to not put money into making any film or show because they're "just racist". They scrap shows that aren't getting viewers and therefore aren't making money. It's that simple. If there's a show with a mainly black cast that's making a fortune then the execs are going to lap it up. If a show (any show) is failing then they'll pull the plug. ALL they care about is numbers and $$$.

I think you nailed it with the problem being cyclical... But I also think of how these movies are not just released in America, but in markets all over the world where the culture is not predominantly white, but the movies still rake in the dollars... Because they're out of Hollywood specifically. Hollywood has the opportunity to set the media and the message for the world, and they choose to make it a message about white culture. Bollywood or the Asian market could never impact America the way that Hollywood does to their cinematic culture.

Also, I think on TV shows that were axed by networks for not reaching a large enough market due to ageism or race culture, and that have gone on to success on Netflix or non-network media
... And I wonder how much of the decision for whether a show gets made comes down to ad demographics, and 16-24 buying culture.

Also, most of the movies up for Oscars are not major box office smashes. You don't see Iron man or the Avengers up for awards... So you can't blame the box office on the choice for what passes by the execs in correlation to what is getting The Oscar buzz.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I just feel bad for ol' Leo. All these years waiting for an Oscar... all the memes and jokes online... it finally looks like he's going to win one...

...and it'll go down in history as "The Racist Oscar".

I agree though and I think more people should boycott it including some white actors

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I agree though and I think more people should boycott it including some white actors

Wouldn't it be an absolutely huge statement if Leo himself boycotted

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Wouldn't it be an absolutely huge statement if Leo himself boycotted

hahaha that would be amazing

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Mokka

But Jamie my friend, the Oscars are THE event for these celebrities each year... And boycott and protest are powerful tools used to bring an issue from the background to the forethought of people's minds, to encourage discussion and debate...like we are having here

Yeah you're not wrong I suppose. I think I'm just being cynical about it making a real difference, because I imagine the bigwigs sitting in their offices counting all the money that the white actors have brought in, and it's hard to imagine things changing. It's definitely good for it to be in the spotlight though. And thinking about it actually, as much as I don't think the Oscars are to blame, there probably aren't many alternative routes that non-white actors can take to protest against the industry.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Mokka

Also, I think on TV shows that were axed by networks for not reaching a large enough market due to ageism or race culture, and that have gone on to success on Netflix or non-network media
... And I wonder how much of the decision for whether a show gets made comes down to ad demographics, and 16-24 buying culture.
.

Totally agree with that; "ratings numbers" have always been AWFUL for quality scripted television and several decent shows have been axed for not meeting them.

I'm almost unreasonably excited about the rise of things like Netflix and Prime (and no doubt others to follow), and what they mean for the future of scripted shows. There has been a noticeable leap in quality already and streaming has only really been mainstream for a couple of years.

[Mokka]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Totally agree with that; "ratings numbers" have always been AWFUL for quality scripted television and several decent shows have been axed for not meeting them.

I'm almost unreasonably excited about the rise of things like Netflix and Prime (and no doubt others to follow), and what they mean for the future of scripted shows. There has been a noticeable leap in quality already and streaming has only really been mainstream for a couple of years.

I'm with you 100% here

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Totally agree with that; "ratings numbers" have always been AWFUL for quality scripted television and several decent shows have been axed for not meeting them.

I'm almost unreasonably excited about the rise of things like Netflix and Prime (and no doubt others to follow), and what they mean for the future of scripted shows. There has been a noticeable leap in quality already and streaming has only really been mainstream for a couple of years.

TV Shows have come on so much in the last few years, I was always bug into movies more than TV Shows but the quality has gotten so good the last few years, I'm definitely a bigger TV fan these days

[bots]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Also Morgan Freeman

He was excellent in Pulp Fiction with Travolta

I thought Morgan Freeman was God in a suit

[Mokka]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

I thought Morgan Freeman was God in a suit

You aren't wrong!

[the truth]

Hollywood even tries to delete different accents, everyone must sounds American, English preferably....bbc is worse.