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Vicky. · 29-07-2018, 01:20 PM

Quote:

A Dublin barber has been ordered to pay €5,000 to a transgender man after being found to have discriminated against him when refusing to give him “a short back and sides”.

The transgender man, Lee McLoughlin, told the Workplace Relations Commission (WRC) that when he sat down to have his hair cut at Charlie’s Barbers in Nutgrove Shopping Centre, south Dublin on September 24th last, the barber, mistakenly believing he was a woman, replied: “I don’t cut ladies’ hair”.

Mr McLoughlin told the barber that he just wanted a “short back and sides” and the barber replied “We don’t cut ladies’ hair. I’m sorry”.

Mr McLoughlin said that he then informed the barber that he was transgender and a trans man.

He alleged the barber proceeded to shake his head and stated, “I am sorry, we can’t cut ladies’ hair. It’s a contract that we have with another hairdresser around the corner, so if we cut a woman’s hair we will be fined”.

Mr McLoughlin had arrived at the busy barbers at 1.05pm and proceeded to take a seat with a number of other men queuing and waited 25 minutes before it was his turn.

Mr McLoughlin told the WRC hearing that the comments by the barber were uttered in front of a number of customers and caused huge embarrassment and distress to him and he left the premises “in shock”.

Mr McLoughlin claimed he was discriminated under the Equal Status Act on the grounds of gender.

Upholding the claim, WRC adjudication officer Gerard McMahon ordered the respondent in the case, Paula Smith of Charlie’s Barbers, to pay out €5,000 to Mr McLoughlin.

Mr McMahon said: “I conclude that the complainant was treated differently, because he was transgender when he was refused a haircut by the respondent. This amounts to discrimination on the grounds of gender.”

Quote:

The barbers said the barber in question had no training in cutting ladies’ hair and had never done so before. They also told the WRC that the barber in question when starting his job was instructed that the business lease prohibited them from cutting women’s hair.

So, this barber was between a rock and a hard place. Theres a contract that they do not cut the hair of females, so he said no, and was fined anyway for this.

What should the barber have done in this case?

And what on earth can they do in the future now, as women will know they only have to put on 'male clothing' and they can get a haircut for a third of the price. So they will be breaching this contract with the other business, and risking fines...but getting large fines anyway if they do not break the contract

All rather confusing tbh.

I don't really see why barbers refuse to do females hair anyway, if they are asking for a 'male haircut' as surely its the same?

Maybe hairdressers should start advertising that barbers are where to go if you want short hair, but hairdressers are where to go if you have long hair or want it dyed?! Rather than being for one sex. Would save short haired females a hell of a lot of money, given womens haircuts are like 20 quid where male ones are 5-7

Crimson Dynamo · 29-07-2018, 01:22 PM

Crimson Dynamo · 29-07-2018, 01:23 PM

Looks like a woman to me

what did the barber do wrong?

idgi

arista · 29-07-2018, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Looks like a woman to me

what did the barber do wrong?

idgi

Its going to be on TV Debates tomorrow
will the Barber get away with this?
As its Ireland anti LGBT
he may,
Hell of a Fine , though

Crimson Dynamo · 29-07-2018, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arista

Its going to be on TV Debates tomorrow
will the Barber get away with this?
As its Ireland anti LGBT
he may

Well the head of the T-Shock thing dyes his hair so he will keep out of this

Oliver_W · 29-07-2018, 01:28 PM

Yeah, he just looks like a butch lezza to me as well. Being misgendered must suck for traps, but sometimes businesses have contracts they must abide by. In this case, the barber wasn't allow to cut female hair. Maybe he didn't know much about trans stuff, so the words meant nothing.

I will say though, a lesbian friend of mine tell the staff at Officer's Club she's a transguy so she can use the changing rooms!

Withano · 29-07-2018, 01:30 PM

Obviously a transman wouldnt go to a ****ing womens salon for a haircut. Barber was just an idiot, but there probably wasnt intent behind the malice.

Cherie · 29-07-2018, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arista

Its going to be on TV Debates tomorrow
will the Barber get away with this?
As its Ireland anti LGBT
he may,
Hell of a Fine , though

there was a recent referendum that showed Ireland is anything but?

Ireland has a very young population so it is unlikely they are anti LGBT

arista · 29-07-2018, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherie

there was a recent referendum that showed Ireland is anything but?

Ireland has a very young population so it is unlikely they are anti LGBT

A Barber is Anti LGBT
and there are loads that hate Gays, still.

Even with new laws

Crimson Dynamo · 29-07-2018, 01:32 PM

looks a bit like marc (im not dragging him but i can see a likeness)

Niamh. · 29-07-2018, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arista

Its going to be on TV Debates tomorrow
will the Barber get away with this?
As its Ireland anti LGBT
he may,
Hell of a Fine , though

Excuse me? That's a pretty ignorant claim considering you don't live here so actually have no idea and also as Cherie pointed out our recent referendum on gay marriage kind of proves otherwise

Vicky. · 29-07-2018, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Withano

Obviously a transman wouldnt go to a ****ing womens salon for a haircut. Barber was just an idiot, but there probably wasnt intent behind the malice.

Barber had a contract that stated they could not cut the hair of females. The contract seems to be the issue, not the barbers. This is a female person, regardless of how they identify, and looking at the photo, again its clear they are a female.

If the barber gets fined for cutting the hair of females, but also gets fined for refusing to cut the hair of females, what are they to do? Just close?

Oliver_W · 29-07-2018, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

looks a bit like marc (im not dragging him but i can see a likeness)

Marc exposed as Marcia??

Crimson Dynamo · 29-07-2018, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Barber had a contract that stated they could not cut the hair of females. The contract seems to be the issue, not the barbers. This is a female person, regardless of how they identify, and looking at the photo, again its clear they are a female.

If the barber gets fined for cutting the hair of females, but also gets fined for refusing to cut the hair of females, what are they to do? Just close?

so just to be clear this is a lady who wants to be a man?

but still is a lady

If so how on earth would the barber know this?

Withano · 29-07-2018, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Barber had a contract that stated they could not cut the hair of females. The contract seems to be the issue, not the barbers. This is a female person, regardless of how they identify, and looking at the photo, again its clear they are a female.

If the barber gets fined for cutting the hair of females, but also gets fined for refusing to cut the hair of females, what are they to do? Just close?

Well, he could accept that transmen are not women like most of the rest of the world

The womens hairsalon would have never got a fine out of the barbers for cutting this mans hair. There was a correct answer in this story, and he didnt choose it.

arista · 29-07-2018, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Excuse me? That's a pretty ignorant claim considering you don't live here so actually have no idea and also as Cherie pointed out our recent referendum on gay marriage kind of proves otherwise

There will always be Anti LGBT
in Ireland.

If you , honestly , do not see that
then you are lucky

Vicky. · 29-07-2018, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Withano

Well, he could accept that transmen are not women like most of the rest of the world

The womens hairsalon would have never got a fine out of the barbers for cutting this mans hair. There was a correct answer in this story, and he didnt choose it.

As far as I know, there is no such thing as a 'womens hair salon'. Barbers have always been for men yes, but every hairdressers I have ever been to does men aswell? Unless the other hairdressers in this story has a contract (like a double edged thing) that states they are not allowed to cut mens hair

Withano · 29-07-2018, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicky.

As far as I know, there is no such thing as a 'womens hair salon'. Barbers have always been for men yes, but every hairdressers I have ever been to does men aswell? Unless the other hairdressers in this story has a contract (like a double edged thing) that states they are not allowed to cut mens hair

If the hairdressers tried to fine the barbers for cutting the transmans hair, they would have failed.

The barber wasnt damned either way. He just chose the wrong option.

Vicky. · 29-07-2018, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Withano

If the hairdressers tried to fine the barbers for cutting the transmans hair, they would have failed.

The barber wasnt damned either way. He just chose the wrong option.

How?

Withano · 29-07-2018, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicky.

How?

Because it would have been the hairdressers that would have been discriminatory, and not the barbers... if anything the hairdressers would have been fined.... but I have a strong suspicion that the hairdressers would accept this transman was not a woman because most of the western world do.

Tom4784 · 29-07-2018, 01:53 PM

There's more to this story then what's been said I think. The contract with the other business would not have overridden equality laws and the other business would not have been able to seek compensation for breach of contract if it meant discriminating against someone.

Courts don't just hand out large fines like this for no reason. My guess is that there was compelling evidence of actual discrimination.

Crimson Dynamo · 29-07-2018, 01:53 PM

imagine wasting court time for this

unbelievable

Niamh. · 29-07-2018, 02:02 PM

There will always be anti LGBT in every country not just Ireland and not more so Ireland. I live here, you don't so don't try to tell me you know better than me

Quote:

Originally Posted by arista

There will always be Anti LGBT
in Ireland.

If you , honestly , do not see that
then you are lucky

arista · 29-07-2018, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh.

There will always be anti LGBT in every country not just Ireland and not more so Ireland. I live here, you don't so don't try to tell me you know better than me

I have met some Irish traders
I am not picking on YOU.