[Nicky91]

Shooter opened fire inside Borderline Bar and Grill in Thousand Oaks, Southern California, at 11.20pm tonight
Man let off at least 30 shots from a pistol with extended mags and threw smoke grenades, witnesses said
At least 11 people were shot including a Ventura deputy sheriff, doorman, cashier and college students
Shooter dressed in all-black, wearing trenchcoat, glasses, baseball cap and mask over his face, reports claim
Lifeless body seen lying outside bar and restaurant, while police say shooter is still inside and not incustody

A gunman has opened fire at a country music bar in the city of Thousand Oaks, California, injuring at least 11 people and killing one.

The shooter stormed the student night at Borderline Bar and Grill wearing a black trenchcoat armed with a 'high capacity' pistol and smoke grenades.

Among the victims was a deputy sheriff and a doorman - as well as a cashier and college students. The lifeless body of a suspected male victim was seen outside of the venue.

Police seemed to suggest they were engaged in a standoff with the shooter. They said the suspect was 'no longer a threat' but was still inside the bar and not yet in custody.

One witness told ABC7: ‘I was at the front door talking to my stepdad. I heard these big pops.

'There were three or four and I hit the ground. The security guard was dead and the man had a handgun.

'He threw in smoke bombs and he kept firing. People threw chairs out of the windows to try to get away.

'The gunman had glasses and a black jacket. He had a big hand gun.’

Another witness said: 'This maniac came in. Threw in smoke to confuse people and opened fire on the dancefloor. He’s taken many young lives’.

A Ventura County Sheriff's Office official said approximately 30 shots had been fired inside the building.

People were hiding from the shooter in bathrooms and attic spaces, while others who managed to escape fled to nearby gas stations for medical help, reports claim.

Some had to use chairs to break windows inside the bar to escape.

Before the shooter opened fire, revelers were enjoying a country music night aimed at college students.

It's thought that a man opened fire at the bar with a semi-automatic gun at about 11.20pm.

The gunman was still believed to be inside the bar an hour later, according to a police official.

The attack has been upgraded to a level 2 mass casualty incident, according to local reports.

A SWAT team have been pictured surrounding the venue in their formations, while the FBI’s Joint Terrorism Task Force is also at the scene.

Borderline is a country music bar that hosts live music events.

Tonight's event was aimed at college students, according to the bar’s website and Instagram page.

some videos about this you can find here
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ornia-bar.html

[arista]

Had to be Country Music event
it seems to keep going on there


The Gunman is Dead

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by arista

Had to be Country Music event
it seems to keep going on there

yes that was also with the las vegas shooting, at people who were at a country singer Jason Aldean's show

[Christmas Dynamo]

California has the toughest gun laws in AMerica I think

[Matthew.]

saw sonething about this earlier, horrible news </3

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

California has the toughest gun laws in AMerica I think

then i don't think this person purchased the gun in California, but more in another state, where it easier for him to buy one

[Livia]

I heard on the news there was some kind of school or college event going on at the venue. Not sure if that's been confirmed.

[arista]

11 dead (including a Police Sgt)
and the gunman

[Nana Xmas]

Tragic and sickening.
So much of this thing going on nowadays.
My son and his girlfriend arrived here from LA airport yesterday, very worrying times.

[arista]

Sadly the killer was a former Marine Army Man
aged 28
serving from 2008 to 2013

https://news.sky.com/story/police-of...oting-11547986

[Babayaro.]

What ****ing chance do you have when an essentially trained killer decides to shoot the place up.

Just awful.

[Good King Glennceslas]

I dont know how true it is but I just read on Twitter that this is the 304th mass shooting in America this year?

[arista]

Originally Posted by Babayaro.

What ****ing chance do you have when an essentially trained killer decides to shoot the place up.

Just awful.

Yes He used Pro Gear
flash bombs etc.
That Police Sgt tried to stop him but got killed


The Killer (Ian David Long)was living with his mother.


Tragic

[Parumpapapump]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Tragic and sickening.
So much of this thing going on nowadays.
My son and his girlfriend arrived here from LA airport yesterday, very worrying times.

Give them a hug smudgie x

[Nana Xmas]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Give them a hug smudgie x

I have Parmy.
I didn’t even mention it to them as I think they are oblivious to it, if there is any reason she should know then her mom will no doubt get in touch.

[Amy Jade]

First confirmed victim is Cody Coffman, 22. RIP x

[Amy Jade]

Originally Posted by Livia

I heard on the news there was some kind of school or college event going on at the venue. Not sure if that's been confirmed.

A student night apparently.

[Amy Jade]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

I dont know how true it is but I just read on Twitter that this is the 304th mass shooting in America this year?

307 according to this report

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.u...amp/1928574002

Basically one a day save 4 days. Scary.

[MaRuDolph]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

I dont know how true it is but I just read on Twitter that this is the 304th mass shooting in America this year?

Yes and no. It depends on how we define the term. "Mass shootings" itself doesn't have a concrete definition.

This is probably the source of the number:

Source: http://www.shootingtracker.com/

Some problems with that source:

The Media’s Inflated ‘Mass Shootings’ Count Is Wildly Misleading
https://www.nationalreview.com/2015/...nt-misleading/

My own definition is fairly close to how the Congress Research Service put it in the above source.

Since there are various floating definitions of "mass shootings", obviously, the version that gets the most clicks is going to be method that nets the higher number. From what reading I'd done, I'd say they are playing funny business with some of the numbers.

(Added later) This was posted today. Similar as the article above, but it goes into more detail and explicitly addresses your post:

Twitter: Thousand Oaks Is '304th Mass Shooting' This Year. That's Misleading.
https://www.dailywire.com/news/38123...r-hank-berrien

Spoiler:

On Thursday morning, after the horrific mass shooting at Borderline Bar & Grill in Thousand Oaks, CA, where at least 12 people were killed at a party for college students from Pepperdine University, California State University Channel Islands, and California Lutheran University, a theme was sounded on Twitter that the terrible incident was the 304th mass shooting in 2018. That claim was often tied to the fact that Wednesday was the 312th day of the year, likely to indicate that mass shootings happen daily in America.

The massacre at Borderline Bar and Grill is the 304th mass shooting this year.

I am absolutely disgusted by the state of our country. Last night was the 304th mass shooting in the United States THIS YEAR. How much blood will be on the hands of our government before they finally DO SOMETHING?
— Stephanie Frosch (@ElloSteph) November 8, 2018

We are 313 days into 2018.
— zellie (@zellieimani) November 8, 2018

#BorderLineShooting is the 304th mass shooting in American this year.
Today is the 312th day of the year.
— Anna O'Donoghue (@AnnaVDesigns) November 8, 2018

304th in one year. https://t.co/pd6hLDS37v
— LaToya Morgan (@MorganicInk) November 8, 2018

The #BorderLineShooting in Thousand Oaks, California is the 304th mass shooting in America this year.
— Michael Skolnik (@MichaelSkolnik) November 8, 2018

The massacre at Borderline Bar and Grill is the 304th mass shooting this year; it has been 12 days since America's last mass shooting. https://t.co/SEmoAfXFLT
— Vogue Magazine (@voguemagazine) November 8, 2018

Today is the 312th day of the year. https://t.co/8pCV1jRPyJ
— Chelsea Clinton (@ChelseaClinton) November 8, 2018

The statistic that the Thousand Oaks shooting was the 304th mass shooting in the United States may well have been derived from the Gun Violence Archive, which describes itself as a “not for profit corporation formed in 2013 to provide free online public access to accurate information about gun-related violence.”

Mass Shooting Tracker notes that Gun Violence Archive uses the FBI-derived definition: four or more shot and/or killed in a single event [incident], at the same general time and location, not including the shooter.

Mass Shooting Tracker continues, “This difference is that we do not count the shooter among the victims when determining if a shooting reaches the threshold of Mass Shooting. It insures a clear separation between victims of a shooting and those who perpetrate the crime. GVA also does not parse the definition to exclude any type of gun violence such as gang shooting or domestic violence. The definition is purely numerical and reflects ALL shootings which reach that statistical threshold.”

But the statistic that the Thousand Oaks shooting was the 304th mass shooting of the year bears some scrutiny. When reviewing the list from Gun Violence Archive, some of the incidents include gang warfare, and at least one incident on their list does not match the source material referenced.

This is not to say that the Gun Violence Archive is wholly inaccurate. They indeed do yeoman work charting shootings around the country, but the picture of a mass shooting held by the public is often not one of a gang warfare killing, but of the perpetrator entering a public place or a school and indiscriminately opening fire on a group of unsuspecting victims.

In early 2018, after the horrible shooting on February 14 at the Marjory Stoneman High School in Florida, the claim was often parroted by those pushing for harsher gun control that the shooting was the 18th school shooting of the year. Even former President Barack Obama, who consistently argued for harsher gun control laws, echoed the claim.

According to The Washington Examiner, when Obama spoke to the audience at the interventional cardiology conference, aka CRT 2018, at the DAR Constitutional Hall, he intoned:

If you ask me the thing that broke my heart, particularly when now I see there have been, and I've gotta update this, [...] 18 shootings in schools this year... this year! And for the medical community, you see the statistics. The leading causes of death among young people in this country have all but, [car] traffic starts going down and stabilizing, gun-inflicted fatalities where you combine suicide and gun violence, it just keeps rising.

But that claim was debunked by sites such as The Washington Post and snopes.com. The Post wrote, “The figure originated with Everytown for Gun Safety, a nonprofit group, co-founded by Michael Bloomberg, that works to prevent gun violence and is most famous for its running tally of school shootings.” The Post noted how the claim had been bandied about by numerous figures on the political Left:

A tweet by Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) including the claim had been liked more than 45,000 times by Thursday evening, and one from political analyst Jeff Greenfield had cracked 126,000. New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio tweeted it, too, as did performers Cher and Alexander William and actors Misha Collins and Albert Brooks. News organizations — including MSNBC, ABC News, NBC News, CBS News, Time, MSN, the BBC, the New York Daily News and HuffPost — also used the number in their coverage. By Wednesday night, the top suggested search after typing “18” into Google was “18 school shootings in 2018.”

The Post then wrote bluntly, “It is a horrifying statistic. And it is wrong. Everytown has long inflated its total by including incidents of gunfire that are not really school shootings.”

Snopes.com added:

When we looked into it, we found that although all the incidents involved the firing of weapons on school grounds, some bore little resemblance to what most of us would think of when we hear that a school shooting has taken place. Two were solely suicides, for example (one of which Everytown retracted on 15 February after the Washington Post pointed out that it occurred at a school that had been closed for several months). Three involved the accidental firing of a weapon. Eight resulted in no injuries. Only seven were intentional shootings that occurred during normal school hours.

The shooting in Thousand Oaks was frightening, tragic, and horrible. But it would seem to be important when discussing the use of guns in America to try to understand why the perpetrators commit these monstrous acts in addition to worrying about who has access to guns. And if a statistic might obscure the distinctions between various shootings, that doesn’t help Americans get any closer to solving the problem.

We don't really have any centrist media in the US anymore. Not surprising if you look at our politics, but I would say much of our bipolar coverage is due to the economic reality of the media environment in general. The web used to fill in for this gap, but with the advent of social, the web economy is very hostile towards small-time journalism/news. So even the smaller outfits will pander to some demographic/line-of-attack in order to push traffic. Many eventually exist as part of a bigger umbrella (i.e. Gawker media). That's why it's important to check different sites for variances on statistics/facts from both sides... and maybe question when the media tells you "that source is so full of ****"... if maybe there is competitive reason behind that... and even more importantly, when reading anything gun-related, to check with people who understand firearms, firearms-related laws, who have done work in criminal justice-related fields, etc to get a better grip on the statistics.


@OP I had I read that there were 4-5 off-duty officers in the crowds. One of the ones that were murdered were very close to retirement. It's sad. So we may hear, why wasn't anyone armed, etc. They would not necessarily have been in armed in TX either. We have a law on the books that if more than 50% of the establishments sales is alcohol, then they are required to post a sign with the penal code stating carrying a weapon onto those premises will result in a felony. Stores also have the option of putting up similar sign at their discretion.

With police, obviously they are permitted on-duty, but I'm not sure about off-duty. Fairly certain the answer here is yes. However, if they planned to drink alcohol in any amount, then they can't carry anything. It's so sad.

I wish the media would stop popularizing the names+faces of these people...