[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

I watched something the other day about when people say they miss the good old days. What they really mean is they miss saying and doing things they want without facing consequences for it

Tbf, people shouldn't be facing consequences to their lives for saying something (unless it's threatening in nature.)

Doing things does depend on what that action is imo.

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

Tbf, people shouldn't be facing consequences to their lives for saying something (unless it's threatening in nature.)

Doing things does depend on what that action is imo.

Depends what they’re saying really. Think the point of the video was that people were so openly hateful and society just accepted it. Nowadays that’s not the case.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

Depends what they’re saying really. Think the point of the video was that people were so openly hateful and society just accepted it. Nowadays that’s not the case.

Oh, I'm glad that society doesn't in general agree with those viewpoints anymore, and free speech does work both ways regardless of my opinion.

[James]

Deleted a lot of arguing posts, as well as baiting.

There is no need to carry out these arguments on the forum. You could at least use private messages.

(Don't reply to this message. Anything you want to say about it, you can PM me.)

[Gusto Brunt]

Pass. They're all dull.

Including the now ex Reform leader Richard Tice.

Gawd that guy gives me the creeps. He's like this closet serial killer.

[Quantum Boy]

Originally Posted by James

Deleted a lot of arguing posts, as well as baiting.

There is no need to carry out these arguments on the forum. You could at least use private messages.

(Don't reply to this message. Anything you want to say about it, you can PM me.)

"Don't openly debate on the debates forums we've been quite clear that we don't actually want them "

Sorry James you'll have to infract I'm not PMing anyone unless it's to have a giggle/vent .

[Kate!]

You'll have to infract me as well James. I've tried to have a pm conversation with Glenn but he just replies with a terse fcuk off!

[Crimson Dynamo]

I got an infration for using one of Tibb's own smilies

this one



ridiculous

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Ed Davey is campaigning by just have a lovely time on the water, best vibes

Originally Posted by LaLaLand

Literally Ed's the only correct answer. Seems like a genuinely nice, normal bloke.

Ed's my fave too.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

I watched something the other day about when people say they miss the good old days. What they really mean is they miss saying and doing things they want without facing consequences for it

Correct

We prefer being free to speak as opposed to having some self appointed speech police ruling over us and deciding what we can say.

I know it's difficult for you brought up in the nanny state to understand. You know no different.

[Quantum Boy]

Originally Posted by Alf

Correct

We prefer being free to speak as opposed to having some self appointed speech police ruling over us and deciding what we can say.

I know it's difficult for you brought up in the nanny state to understand. You know no different.

I agree on principle that legal consequences should only be for extreme cases.

What I find hilarious is that certain people now believe that they should have speech free from social consequences as well. This has never existed. You can't have your cake and eat it too - if you want a world where free speech is upheld without the law interfering, you have to accept that groups of individuals also have the freedom to act on what's been said, i.e. boycotting, refusal of entry, social exclusion.

In "primitive times" a wee bit too much free speech would just have got you clubbed across the head .

Where on earth did the entitled idea that people should be able to run their mouth with ZERO consequences come from?

tl;dr "Free speech without government control", yes 100%.

But "Talk sh** get hit" -- that's nature, bro. If you keep saying things people don't like, it's going to bite you, so you weigh up how much flak you're willing to take and act accordingly. Surely.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

I agree on principle that legal consequences should only be for extreme cases.

What I find hilarious is that certain people now believe that they should have speech free from social consequences as well. This has never existed. You can't have your cake and eat it too - if you want a world where free speech is upheld without the law interfering, you have to accept that groups of individuals also have the freedom to act on what's been said, i.e. boycotting, refusal of entry, social exclusion.

In "primitive times" a wee bit too much free speech would just have got you clubbed across the head .

Where on earth did the entitled idea that people should be able to run their mouth with ZERO consequences come from?

tl;dr "Free speech without government control", yes 100%.

But "Talk sh** get hit" -- that's nature, bro. If you keep saying things people don't like, it's going to bite you, so you weigh up how much flak you're willing to take and act accordingly. Surely.

Like that great SOuthpark cartoon

Just use violence and threats and you can shut people up no problem and back that up by framing any criticism as a phobia and get useful idiots to patrol that for you as it makes them feel virtuous

that is working a charm

[Quantum Boy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Like that great SOuthpark cartoon

Just use violence and threats and you can shut people up no problem and back that up by framing any criticism as a phobia and get useful idiots to patrol that for you as it makes them feel virtuous

that is working a charm

The only alternative is to have government-protected free speech "for some" as opposed to government denial of free speech "for some" and at the end of the day, what's the difference?

The line obviously should be physical retaliation, and the threat of physical retaliation, but it seems that there are an awful lot of people who don't like vocal retaliation or non-violent activism either and get very huffy/teary about not being able to "say what they want" without anyone getting mad at them and saying nasty mean things . Which is so gosh darned childish it's genuinely sad, and endlessly ironic .

[Zizu]

Well could it be Stephen Fry ??

I wish someone would start a brand new party

No politicians .. just honest , super-intelligent, experienced people .

Get successful financiers in charge of the nation’s finances .. amazing doctors/surgeons / dietitians in charge of the NHS and so on ..

The best people for the jobs/roles


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[Quantum Boy]

Originally Posted by Zizu

Well could it be Stephen Fry ??

I wish someone would start a brand new party

No politicians .. just honest , super-intelligent, experienced people .

Get successful financiers in charge of the nation’s finances .. amazing doctors/surgeons / dietitians in charge of the NHS and so on ..

The best people for the jobs/roles

I'm all for a benevolent meritocracy personally . Democracy doesn't really work.

However.

Currently, the money in politics simply isn't good enough to attract real talent. So you only get three types of people

1) People who are actually not top of their field at all
2) People who are independently wealthy and don't need the salary (hello Tories)
3) People who are in it for ideological reasons, could make more money elsewhere but will take a pay cut to try to make a difference.


...and #3 will discover quite quickly that they can't make any meaningful difference whatsoever in our current political system, so will abandon politics for either a more comfortable life or to work in the not-for-profit 3rd sector where they can at least make a SMALL difference to real people's lives.

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

I'm all for a benevolent meritocracy personally . Democracy doesn't really work.

However.

Currently, the money in politics simply isn't good enough to attract real talent. So you only get three types of people

1) People who are actually not top of their field at all
2) People who are independently wealthy and don't need the salary (hello Tories)
3) People who are in it for ideological reasons, could make more money elsewhere but will take a pay cut to try to make a difference.


...and #3 will discover quite quickly that they can't make any meaningful difference whatsoever in our current political system, so will abandon politics for either a more comfortable life or to work in the not-for-profit 3rd sector where they can at least make a SMALL difference to real people's lives.

Politics hasn’t worked in the last 7 decades so why keep making the same mistakes !?


Whats that saying ?




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[Beso]

I could be lying dead in a coffin for a week and still have more charisma than the lot of them put together.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

I agree on principle that legal consequences should only be for extreme cases.

What I find hilarious is that certain people now believe that they should have speech free from social consequences as well. This has never existed. You can't have your cake and eat it too - if you want a world where free speech is upheld without the law interfering, you have to accept that groups of individuals also have the freedom to act on what's been said, i.e. boycotting, refusal of entry, social exclusion.

In "primitive times" a wee bit too much free speech would just have got you clubbed across the head .

Where on earth did the entitled idea that people should be able to run their mouth with ZERO consequences come from?

tl;dr "Free speech without government control", yes 100%.

But "Talk sh** get hit" -- that's nature, bro. If you keep saying things people don't like, it's going to bite you, so you weigh up how much flak you're willing to take and act accordingly. Surely.

Fair enough on the other two points, because depending on what's been said, I can understand those things being enforced.

I don't believe that social exclusion helps anyone, if anything as a society we should be trying to help the person try to understand your point of view on a topic, and why their view is wrong.

Because excluding the individual from their livelihood, and society at large will increase the likelihood of the person going more extreme and possibly a threat to society at large.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

The only alternative is to have government-protected free speech "for some" as opposed to government denial of free speech "for some" and at the end of the day, what's the difference?

The line obviously should be physical retaliation, and the threat of physical retaliation, but it seems that there are an awful lot of people who don't like vocal retaliation or non-violent activism either and get very huffy/teary about not being able to "say what they want" without anyone getting mad at them and saying nasty mean things . Which is so gosh darned childish it's genuinely sad, and endlessly ironic .

I do agree with you tbh.

Especially with some people not being able to accept that people have the right to not like the controversial statement that's been made by an individual, it's controversial for a reason, and while the individual has the right to say their controversial opinion, the other person also has the right to disagree with it.

[bots]

it really shouldn't matter who is the most personable/charismatic leader. I would be happy with one that is half way competent

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

it really shouldn't matter who is the most personable/charismatic leader. I would be happy with one that is half way competent

Half way competent !!

You are extremely optimistic


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[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

it really shouldn't matter who is the most personable/charismatic leader. I would be happy with one that is half way competent

I think that it should be about who can get wet.

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

I think that it should be about who can get wet.

Boris Johnson !!

Helping to clean out a lake !’

You won’t see the charlatans getting wet or filthy !!




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[Beso]

you have to accept that groups of individuals also have the freedom to act on what's been said, i.e. boycotting, refusal of entry, social exclusion...



No blacks no Irish...is that what you are willing to accept @Soldier Boy

[Quantum Boy]

Originally Posted by parmnion

you have to accept that groups of individuals also have the freedom to act on what's been said, i.e. boycotting, refusal of entry, social exclusion...



No blacks no Irish...is that what you are willing to accept @Soldier Boy

You don't think there's a difference between social exclusion based on someone's immutable characteristics, and social exclusion based on someone's words, actions and behaviours?

Well...thats telling, I suppose.