[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by bots

Al Gore lost to Bush because of the indentation on voting cards. That was contested in the Supreme court

That sounds absurd.

But then it is America we're talking about.

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

Well Alf was talking about other candidates being "robbed" of the Presidency besides Trump, and I'm wondering who (or whom) he might be referring to.

Tbh I don't really know what system that you guys should go for, because with only two Political parties in your country, it's hard to find a neutral base that could monitor that the votes for each party are genuine votes.

I don't subscribe to the concept of a perfect system. Every election will have some problem. I just would prefer they be honest and transparent about it, instead of demonizing human error and the occasional bad egg. It only becomes systemic when ignored.

The chase for perfect politics has driven away all possibility for compromises and creative solutions because the ruling parties are penalized for even a basic perceived lack of perfection and thus it is assumed they lack good intuition. Subsequently, I strongly distrust any politician that suggests idealism is enough to craft good policy out of thin air.

I am on mobile so can't flesh out this point too much, but in short, we are dealing with the business of unicorn wrangling instead of searching for and crafting unique talent that can actually enact good policy. When there is nothing to show for it, this leads to ridiculous overpromising by respective parties and thus people vote not knowing any better what they are being sold because they are given too many contradictory choices. Increasingly neither party is allowed room to compromise on lack of perfection, so we stay on the same trajectory despite shifts in representation.

In striving for "perfect", we end up with either gridlock or politicians not caring because they are forced to pass 700-900 page omnibus bills, just to enact a will, which don't even address their main problem. And America goes back and forth between each party with little result despite the fact our thirst for an idealistic representation for America in the world has led us down this path. Thank God for the States, because if national actually ran more of the country in its current state, I'd imagine we would be more like the UK politically speaking where leaders keep changing but nothing progresses... (I'll take a few States out of 50 getting it right, because at least it is something to point at and say "That works!"... only for others to copy)

[Maru]

Originally Posted by bots

Al Gore lost to Bush because of the indentation on voting cards. That was contested in the Supreme court

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

That sounds absurd.

But then it is America we're talking about.

I am pleased to say in the entirity of the time I have been a voter (2 decades) that I have always voted electronically. Even if some poor hack mismanages my vote, it won't be because of my own foolishness or a paper issue

[bots]

All democratic political systems rely on participants acting in good faith. More often than not, this isn't the case anymore which is why democratic systems are failing and there is no going back

[Quantum Boy]

There's a lot of talk here about candidates denying the legitimacy of wins and being sore losers - and that's probably true...

... However I've yet to see that -- other than with Trump -- result in claims that the loser actually won behind the scenes, was still in control of the military, and has secretly been pulling all the strings because "everything is actually going to plan!".

Its mad as a sack of cats.

[bots]

The Trump stuff is totally dislocated from reality. There is no doubt that the dems are not perfect, but they are just not in the same league as the trump fantasy

The latest is that trump is thinking of dropping Vance and appointing Kennedy as VP. It all just becomes more absurd by the day

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

Well Alf was talking about other candidates being "robbed" of the Presidency besides Trump, and I'm wondering who (or whom) he might be referring to.

Tbh I don't really know what system that you guys should go for, because with only two Political parties in your country, it's hard to find a neutral base that could monitor that the votes for each party are genuine votes.

Alf was talking about Democrats complaning that the election results were rigged and stolen on numerous occasions, but you only care when it was Trump saying it. And there's actually lots of evidence to back up his claim, like stopping the count for days. Boarding up the polling station windows. The fact Biden spent his all campaign in the basement whilst Trump had 3 to 4 packed out rallies daily.

[Quantum Boy]

Originally Posted by Alf

Alf was talking about Democrats complaning that the election results were rigged and stolen on numerous occasions, but you only care when it was Trump saying it. And there's actually lots of evidence to back up his claim, like stopping the count for days. Boarding up the polling station windows. The fact Biden spent his all campaign in the basement whilst Trump had 3 to 4 packed out rallies daily.

It's not about them (Trump included) SAYING it -- As Maru said, people (and Americans especially, or so it seems) are "sore losers" and defensive so his claims are not all that unusual, if childish and undignified.

The difference is that the Trump Truthers not only fully believe his claims, but in fact some go a whole leap further and construct elaborate fantasies about how he's secretly still in control and it's all been part of some grand plan to take down the system all along.

It's 100% reddit/social media fan-fiction.

[James]

Donald Trump reviews Citizen Kane in 2002.

Youtube video

[Maru]

Originally Posted by bots

The Trump stuff is totally dislocated from reality. There is no doubt that the dems are not perfect, but they are just not in the same league as the trump fantasy

The latest is that trump is thinking of dropping Vance and appointing Kennedy as VP. It all just becomes more absurd by the day

Not really seeing this. Most political stuff I see is much more moderate than it used to be. Not really hearing conspiracies anymore. I don't watch cable news. It's garbage. I mean other than the Biden drop out it has felt more like a normal election by 2024 standards than it has felt in a long time. I don't see people being pressured like they were about who to vote whereas the past several cycles were just relentless. More people are like yeah I am voting for X... whatever sue me lol. I wouldn't be surprised if after the fact they poll and find out most had decided many many months ago.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Alf

Alf was talking about Democrats complaning that the election results were rigged and stolen on numerous occasions, but you only care when it was Trump saying it. And there's actually lots of evidence to back up his claim, like stopping the count for days. Boarding up the polling station windows. The fact Biden spent his all campaign in the basement whilst Trump had 3 to 4 packed out rallies daily.

Did the Democrats rile up their vote base to the point that they try to storm Capitol Hill?

[Maru]

Dr. Phil interviewed him.

Youtube video

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

Did the Democrats rile up their vote base to the point that they try to storm Capitol Hill?

Not the Capitol building, although I'd have to check to be sure, but yes they did and still do.

And Trump didn't do that. Do you want me to show you again? Or will you still parrot the television even after seeing?

[Glenn.]

Brain dead

[Quantum Boy]

Originally Posted by Maru

Dr. Phil interviewed him.

Youtube video

Why is Dr Phil posing as a serious political journalist these days? Is pretending to be a licenced psychologist to make money from bullying 12-year-old girls on telly no longer a money-maker? "Aww shucks they don't want to see me shouting down children any more, I guess I gotta jerk off the Trump stans."

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by Quantum Boy

Why is Dr Phil posing as a serious political journalist these days? Is pretending to be a licenced psychologist to make money from bullying 12-year-old girls on telly no longer a money-maker? "Aww shucks they don't want to see me shouting down children any more, I guess I gotta jerk off the Trump stans."

The exponentially richer Jeremy Kyle

[Quantum Boy]

Originally Posted by Liam-

The exponentially richer Jeremy Kyle

One of the few faint glimmers of humanity in this country was when people realised that Kyle's brand of poverty-bullying-for-profit was a step too far and his show was taken off air. Just unfortunate that he didn't go with it.

[Nicky91]

well honestly, Dr Phil grew up on the streets in a cardboard box, let's not criticize the poor man too much

[Quantum Boy]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

well honestly, Dr Phil grew up on the streets in a cardboard box, let's not criticize the poor man too much

And that's why he made a name for himself shouting at little girls from broken homes for his own profit?

[Maru]

Ok. I've heard this more than a few times now. People, when trying to discuss how Trump was "assassinated--I mean!... attempted assasination!".. it comes up during discussion casually and then people keep making the exact same mistake.

Pretty sad that subconsciously so many people were expecting it that their brains have to continuously reprocess the fact he's still with us.

Edit: FWIW, people irl are doing it too.

[bots]

trump made a pretty horrendous comment about Hilary and Kamala and how blow jobs affected their careers. It's pretty sad that writing that trash has been normalised by him

[Maru]

Originally Posted by bots

trump made a pretty horrendous comment about Hilary and Kamala and how blow jobs affected their careers. It's pretty sad that writing that trash has been normalised by him

This kind of crass humor has always been part of our political scenery. Especially during Clinton era. Have you never seen American bumper stickers? There's some vulgar ones in town which a short drive away leans very progressive. So he specifically hasn't normalized it. Remember JD Vance and the couch? Both the blow job reference and this one were actually very tame.

If you ever go around places where people put up funny political humor and signage posted, it's very normal to see sexual references about politicians. The kind of humor that doesn't shy away from making them the butt of the joke (sometimes literally).

If you go to DC in front of Congress, you may even see it. People go for maximum effect with these things. DC has some "fun" characters that park out front with their vans, usually with all kinds of conspiratorial nonsense and other crazy politics, from all over the spectrum. Not things you would see in the mainstream, but also other vulgar items that they either sell or just for display just for the sake of making fun of politicians. Some people take their Freedom of Speech very seriously and that means driving around in vehicles, caked in decals and other offensive media, just to drive a stake into what they see as an overly aggressive, but failed, political machine. Closest example nearer to home would be "cowboy humor". There's the family friendly version and the kind that you would really need a thicker skin to withstand.

Anyway, what the media portrays is their own version of things, whatever that ends up being. Not everything is "unprecedented". That word gets tossed around too much, when it's almost never actually true.

Edit: If I ever get a chance to go somewhere with stuff posted, I'll get pictures, because it's a different world of humor and actually something worth documenting.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Maru

This kind of crass humor has always been part of our political scenery. Especially during Clinton era. Have you never seen American bumper stickers? There's some vulgar ones in town which a short drive away leans very progressive. So he specifically hasn't normalized it. Remember JD Vance and the couch? Both the blow job reference and this one were actually very tame.

If you ever go around places where people put up funny political humor and signage posted, it's very normal to see sexual references about politicians. The kind of humor that doesn't shy away from making them the butt of the joke (sometimes literally).

If you go to DC in front of Congress, you may even see it. People go for maximum effect with these things. DC has some "fun" characters that park out front with their vans, usually with all kinds of conspiratorial nonsense and other crazy politics, from all over the spectrum. Not things you would see in the mainstream, but also other vulgar items that they either sell or just for display just for the sake of making fun of politicians. Some people take their Freedom of Speech very seriously and that means driving around in vehicles, caked in decals and other offensive media, just to drive a stake into what they see as an overly aggressive, but failed, political machine. Closest example nearer to home would be "cowboy humor". There's the family friendly version and the kind that you would really need a thicker skin to withstand.

Anyway, what the media portrays is their own version of things, whatever that ends up being. Not everything is "unprecedented". That word gets tossed around too much, when it's almost never actually true.

Edit: If I ever get a chance to go somewhere with stuff posted, I'll get pictures, because it's a different world of humor and actually something worth documenting.

that would just not be done here, certainly not so directly

I think the worse we had here was David Cameron and how he porked a pigs head. There were lots of references to ham and bacon ..... but really nothing detailed

[Maru]

Originally Posted by bots

that would just not be done here, certainly not so directly

I think the worse we had here was David Cameron and how he porked a pigs head. There were lots of references to ham and bacon ..... but really nothing detailed

I don't know what that means, but it sounds funnier because it sounds so tame Is this like American pie?

[bots]

Originally Posted by Maru

I don't know what that means, but it sounds funnier because it sounds so tame Is this like American pie?

he put his willy in the pigs mouth