[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Crimson Dynamo

By the end of the noms I went from having no opinion of him to despising him with every fibre of my body

Same here haha but also feeling a bit sorry for him because it seems that almost everything he does is annoying without him realising any of it, I think he'll be really shocked to see the noms

[Livia]

Originally Posted by vesavius

That is not part of the definition of the word.

I guess if you make up your own definitions though anything can be made to disappear.

Why is it the case that it's always the people that signal how much they are against bigotry and hate with profile pics and flags always end up to be the worst for both? It's consistently true.

So true....

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Ray.

I was the opposite, I went from mostly indifferent to kind of intrigued. Dark humour, sitting coiled like a snake, etc. They painted an interesting sounding picture of someone the cameras haven't been paying much attention to.

Agreed

[BBXX]

It’s not up to straight people to define what is and isn’t homophobic and how offended gay people should be by homophobic jokes.

They are of course allowed an opinion, but it would be so much classier and wise to maybe just listen to why it’s offensive and learn from others lived experiences that you haven’t, and will never, go through.

It takes a special kind of ignorance and ego to play down homophobia and a gay person’s reaction to it when you’ve no experience of it.

This place, honestly.

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by vesavius

It’s not up to gay people to define what is and isn’t heterophobic and how offended straight people should be by heterophobic jokes.

They are of course allowed an opinion, but it would be so much classier and wise to maybe just listen to why it’s offensive and learn from others lived experiences that you haven’t, and will never, go through.

It takes a special kind of ignorance and ego to play down heterophobia and a straight person’s reaction to it when you’ve no experience of it.

This place, honestly.

I don’t really disagree. Of course due to the lack of any kind of historical anti-straight discourse, persecution, laws, removal of rights, bullying it’s low on the totem pole of “this is an issue” but yes if you feel it’s heterophobic to say cis straight men are seen as threatening then who am I to tell you you’re wrong (and I didn’t).

You see how it works? You can educate me on what you as a straight person offends your straightness and I will learn from it and not pretend to know better without ever having lived a life as a straight person. Apart from the first 20 years of my life, of course.

[Ray.]

vesavius' posts shouldn't be being deleted. They're being perfectly respectful and arguing in good faith. A mod disagreeing with them shouldn't enter into it.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by BBXX

It’s not up to straight people to define what is and isn’t homophobic and how offended gay people should be by homophobic jokes.

It takes a special kind of ignorance and ego to play down homophobia and a gay person’s reaction to it when you’ve no experience of it.

I mean, gay people tell me that I shouldn't be offended by heterophobia and they tell me that it actually doesn't even exist.

I guess if you are going to recognise that as ignorance as well and tell those types to listen and learn then we can reach a compromise and agree.

(sorry, I tried to delete my previous post but you got to the quote button really fast haha)

[BBXX]

I agree. That post should stay up, it’s beautifully worded.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by Ray.

vesavius' posts shouldn't be being deleted. They're being perfectly respectful and arguing in good faith. A mod disagreeing with them shouldn't enter into it.

To be fair, I deleted one or two recently myself, because I saw the prior ones being taken down and didn't want to offend the powers that be with views that might not be allowed here.

It's fine, thanks for saying though

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by vesavius

I mean, gay people tell me that I shouldn't be offended by heterophobia and they tell me that it actually doesn't even exist.

I guess if you are going to recognise that as ignorance as well and tell those types to listen and learn then we can reach a compromise and agree.

You want me to call out other gay people denying heterophobia and then you will agree that straight people shouldn’t comment on what is and isn’t homophobia and shouldn’t comment on why should and shouldn’t offend gay people despite the fact that’s all you’ve done on this thread.

It’s almost like you didn’t even believe what you were saying to begin with and just said it to be controversial if your opinion is that easily swayed.

Good to know though - and absolutely. Nobody should tell you heterophobia doesn’t exist and you shouldn’t be offended by it.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by BBXX

I don’t really disagree. Of course due to the lack of any kind of historical anti-straight discourse, persecution, laws, removal of rights, bullying it’s low on the totem pole of “this is an issue”

I would disagree that there hasn't been anti-straight discourse, erasure, and even bullying over the last decade

I pay attention to a lot of hard left and hardline LGBQT+ media and see it in real time, and that's without the secondary effects of it on mainstream society.

I guess that we get to decide what goes where on our own totem poles and what is an issue or not. No one group gets to dictate what is an issue for another, which I guess is at the heart of what your original point was.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by BBXX

You want me to call out other gay people denying heterophobia and then you will agree that straight people shouldn’t comment on what is and isn’t homophobia and shouldn’t comment on why should and shouldn’t offend gay people despite the fact that’s all you’ve done on this thread.

Good to know though - and absolutely. Nobody should tell you heterophobia doesn’t exist and you shouldn’t be offended by it.

I apologise, I don't really understand what you are saying in your first paragraph.

A big part of what I am saying really is don't expect me to listen to moral lectures from people in this thread that have demonstrated themselves to be bigots.

I am not sure why you have seemingly gone on the attack (?) though... I am happy to have a civil non hostile conversation.

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by vesavius

I would disagree that there hasn't been anti-straight discourse, erasure, and even bullying over the last decade

I pay attention to a lot of hard left and hardline LGBQT+ media and see it in real time, and that's without the secondary effects of it on mainstream society.

I guess that we get to decide what goes on our own totem poles and what is an issue or not. No one group gets to dictate what is an issue for another, which I guess is at the heart of what your original point was.

Yes, if you really feel like heterophobia is an issue it’s not up to me, a gay person, to say it’s not.

I might suggest our issues aren’t quite the same - I worry about holding hands with my husband and have to see if it’s safe for me to travel to a specific country - but they’re my issues, and many millions others. Not yours. You have straight-erasure to contend with, I certainly don’t . Nobody has ever tried to erase my straightness.

[Jessica.]

Originally Posted by vesavius

I would disagree that there hasn't been anti-straight discourse, erasure, and even bullying over the last decade

I pay attention to a lot of hard left and hardline LGBQT+ media and see it in real time, and that's without the secondary effects of it on mainstream society.

I guess that we get to decide what goes on our own totem poles and what is an issue or not. No one group gets to dictate what is an issue for another, which I guess is at the heart of what your original point was.

The thing is, due to certain parts of the Internet and podcasts becoming way more widespread, more straight men have been radicalised or gained the confidence to be more outspoken against women, you see it so often these days and it's very scary so as a result of that you see a lot more people countering it too with negativity about men.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by BBXX

Yes, if you really feel like heterophobia is an issue it’s not up to me, a gay person, to say it’s not.

I might suggest our issues aren’t quite the same - I worry about holding hands with my husband and have to see if it’s safe for me to travel to a specific country - but they’re my issues, and many millions others. Not yours. You have straight-erasure to contend with, I certainly don’t . Nobody has ever tried to erase my straightness.

No, they aren't the same, I agree, but it's not up to you to decide that mine are lesser, which is what we are saying right? We both agree on that?

As for travelling to those other countries being dangerous to LBGT... I agree that's awful. But that's down to very clear cultural and religious factors in those places and I am really talking about the UK.

[Livia]

@vesavius, you've become one of my all-time favourite posters.

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by vesavius

No, they aren't the same, I agree, but it's not up to you to decide that mine are lesser, which is what we are saying right? We both agree on that?

As for travelling to those other countries being dangerous to LBGT... I agree that's awful. But that's down to very clear cultural and religious factors in those places and I am really talking about the UK.

People still get attacked in the UK for being gay. It’s not a gay utopia and as a result there are things straight people absolutely will take for granted that gay people have to not do or at least risk-assess.

I am not saying your issues are lesser, it’s not my place to. I would say though that the ratio of straight people pretending to be gay because it is safer for them to do so compared to the opposite will be significantly imbalanced. For a reason.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by Jessica.

The thing is, due to certain parts of the Internet and podcasts becoming way more widespread, more straight men have been radicalised or gained the confidence to be more outspoken against women, you see it so often these days and it's very scary so as a result of that you see a lot more people countering it too with negativity about men.

Yes, a lot of straight men have been radicalised, but largely in a direct response to the radicalisation and growth of a heterophobic misandrist hard left.

It's often a direct pushback to the demonisation of straight men that we have seen grow for the last 20 years or so.

Idiots like Tate weren't born in a vacuum... They were created as a reaction to a dominant hardline Leftist anti white male ideology and it's cultural impact.

There was a point, probably around the mid 00s, that a silent ideological decision was made for our course of travel... Equality and fair play to all going forward, or revenge. Sadly, revenge was chosen and here we are.

I wish that we had all just chosen the first option.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by Livia

@vesavius, you've become one of my all-time favourite posters.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by BBXX

People still get attacked in the UK for being gay. It’s not a gay utopia and as a result there are things straight people absolutely will take for granted that gay people have to not do or at least risk-assess.

I am not saying your issues are lesser, it’s not my place to. I would say though that the ratio of straight people pretending to be gay because it is safer for them to do so compared to the opposite will be significantly imbalanced. For a reason.

They do, I agree. And it's getting worse again as demographics change. This is a terrible thing, I agree.

I am not erasing gay issues, I am saying that hetero issues also exist. They may be different, but they exist and they are no less important.

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by vesavius

They do, I agree. And it's getting worse again as demographics change. This is a terrible thing, I agree.

I am not erasing gay issues, I am saying that hetero issues also exist. They may be different, but they exist and they are no less important.

That’s fine but I’ll be honest, a lot of the posts in this thread HAVE been erasing gay issues, or at least the gay issue that happened in CBB this week, which is what my original point was about really.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Its been so quiet we are still talking about this

Surely we need to discuss why Jack got so many noms

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by BBXX

That’s fine but I’ll be honest, a lot of the posts in this thread HAVE been erasing gay issues, or at least the gay issue that happened in CBB this week, which is what my original point was about really.

I haven't seen them doing that.

I do think though that there is a natural pushback against the weaponisation of being offended and the use of fake offence being used as a social currency in order to elevate one group above another. maybe that's what you are seeing.

I think a lot of people are just bored of it.... Bored of the Reddit and X lot brigading and bullying over the smallest thing.

Are the vast majority really offended by Mickey's ill judged jokes? I am not saying they were kind or appropriate, I wouldn't have made them myself, but are people really hurt by a 72 year old codger's nonsense? Or is it all mostly just performative pearl-clutching and the gleeful chance to dogpile a celebrity and beat them down?

To those genuinely offended by what Mickey said, that's fine, I respect that, they have that right, I understand, but so many are full of ****.

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by vesavius

I haven't seen them doing that.

I do think though that there is a natural pushback against the weaponisation of being offended and the use of fake offence being used as a social currency in order to elevate one group above another. maybe that's what you are seeing.

I think a lot of people are just bored of it.... Bored of the Reddit and X lot brigading and bullying over the smallest thing.

Are the vast majority really offended by Mickey's ill judged jokes? I am not saying they were kind or appropriate, I wouldn't have made them myself, but are people really hurt by a 72 year old codger's nonsense? Or is it all mostly just performative pearl-clutching and the gleeful chance to dogpile a celebrity and beat them down?

To those genuinely offended by what Mickey said, that's fine, I respect that, they have that right, I understand, but so many are full of ****.

[Jessica.]

Originally Posted by vesavius

Yes, a lot of straight men have been radicalised, but largely in a direct response to the radicalisation and growth of a heterophobic hard left.

It's often a direct pushback to the demonisation of straight men that we have seen grow for the last 20 years or so.

Idiots like Tate weren't born in a vacuum... They were created as a reaction to a dominant hardline Leftist anti white male ideology and it's cultural impact.

There was a point, probably around the mid 00s, that a silent ideological decision was made for our course of travel... Equality and fair play to all going forward, or revenge. Sadly, revenge was chosen and here we are.

I wish that we had all just chosen the first option.

Incorrect