[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by Crimson Dynamo

the answer is that you cannot change sex, its impossible to do so.

Yeah exactly the answer I knew you were gonna say.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

Yeah exactly the answer I knew you were gonna say.

This affects lesbians as well you know so its not very cut and dried for your community

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

This affects lesbians as well you know so its not very cut and dried for your community

That’s not what I asked Cherie. The question asked was what happens with the trans women that no longer have a penis and have gone through full transition.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

That’s not what I asked Cherie. The question asked was what happens with the trans women that no longer have a penis and have gone through full transition.

Legally she is not a woman in the eyes of the law, its not the end of the world to use the disabled facilities is it? but I expect she will use the ladies and no one will bat an eyelid ..

[Quantum Boy]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Despite how it sounds, this law change isn't actually stating that trans women are men - it's saying that women only means women on matters relating to the Equality Act.

Things like woman-only shortlists, they won't be required to allow trans women in.

Correct it's only stating that there must be a clear legal distinction between biological sex at birth and gender identity and that sex-based protections apply to biological sex. There already are (and may be more) protections for trans people separate to that. The legal distinction is hugely important for various reasons... and does not say "transwomen are men". Just that they're not biologically women. They're transwomen.

Like I said on the previous page though, OF COURSE the "anti-woke warriors" will also want to frame all of this as a victory "against the libs". As I always say, women have good reason to celebrate this, but don't forget that a huge number of the men celebrating it as not the friends or allies of women. They don't care about you, and many of them hold women in outright contempt, they're just using this issue because it fits another agenda. Messy stuff.

[Quantum Boy]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

That’s not what I asked Cherie. The question asked was what happens with the trans women that no longer have a penis and have gone through full transition.

As has always been the case, what SHOULD happen is that bathrooms etc should be gender neutral single self-contained rooms. That was always the solution to the "bathroom problem". It doesn't need to be a problem at all. I know it's more complicated than that - but only because communal bathrooms are already an established norm. They're an outdated concept. No one actually wants them.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Quantum Boy

Correct it's only stating that there must be a clear legal distinction between biological sex at birth and gender identity and that sex-based protections apply to biological sex. There already are (and may be more) protections for trans people separate to that. The legal distinction is hugely important for various reasons... and does not say "transwomen are men". Just that they're not biologically women. They're transwomen.

Like I said on the previous page though, OF COURSE the "anti-woke warriors" will also want to frame all of this as a victory "against the libs". As I always say, women have good reason to celebrate this, but don't forget that a huge number of the men celebrating it as not the friends or allies of women. They don't care about you, and many of them hold women in outright contempt, they're just using this issue because it fits another agenda. Messy stuff.

I don't think this needs pointing out at all, there are bad actors on both sides, and women know they can only rely on themselves when it boils down to it, there may be allies on both sides of course, but if the past few years of being called bigot, Terf etc has taught us anything it is that we have to protect ourselves, men are not ging to step up for us ....look at Starmer wittering on about cervixs, a disgrace

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Quantum Boy

Correct it's only stating that there must be a clear legal distinction between biological sex at birth and gender identity and that sex-based protections apply to biological sex. There already are (and may be more) protections for trans people separate to that. The legal distinction is hugely important for various reasons... and does not say "transwomen are men". Just that they're not biologically women. They're transwomen.

Like I said on the previous page though, OF COURSE the "anti-woke warriors" will also want to frame all of this as a victory "against the libs". As I always say, women have good reason to celebrate this, but don't forget that a huge number of the men celebrating it as not the friends or allies of women. They don't care about you, and many of them hold women in outright contempt, they're just using this issue because it fits another agenda. Messy stuff.

Yeah, unfortunately at the moment it feels like a mess for women coming from both "sides" for different reasons

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Quantum Boy

As has always been the case, what SHOULD happen is that bathrooms etc should be gender neutral single self-contained rooms. That was always the solution to the "bathroom problem". It doesn't need to be a problem at all. I know it's more complicated than that - but only because communal bathrooms are already an established norm. They're an outdated concept. No one actually wants them.

Yeah, this is certainly the way, for public toilets anyway, although it could be a big expense or space issue for a lot of places that already have those communal set ups in place like schools and shopping centres etc. In my work we have just two self contained rooms like that.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

Did you know that some rapists in the UK only get 4 years in Prison?

A bit of a wild tangent on my part I know, but it's crazy how little deterrent there actually is for rape in the UK.

Because I know that apparently some rape cases in the UK can go up to 19 years in Prison, but I do tend to hear about the 4 year ones than I ever do the 19.

Most rape cases get nothing at all

[Jessica.]

A woman gets murdered by her cis male partner every 2 days in the UK but "feminists" are putting their energy into fighting to take away the rights of trans women instead, you couldn't make it up.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Jessica.

A woman gets murdered by her cis male partner every 2 days in the UK but "feminists" are putting their energy into fighting to take away the rights of trans women instead, you couldn't make it up.

Murder is already illegal Jessica. But just fyi, feminists were the ones who set up all the domestic violence refuges for women

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by Quantum Boy

As has always been the case, what SHOULD happen is that bathrooms etc should be gender neutral single self-contained rooms. That was always the solution to the "bathroom problem". It doesn't need to be a problem at all. I know it's more complicated than that - but only because communal bathrooms are already an established norm. They're an outdated concept. No one actually wants them.

You say that but there is still people who are triggered by gender neutral toilets. Even though there are gender neutral toilets everywhere.

[Quantum Boy]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

You say that but there is still people who are triggered by gender neutral toilets. Even though there are gender neutral toilets everywhere.

Well exactly, there are people who are concerned about the actual issues and then there are others who just "hate woke stuff" and bleat on about "mind viruses" and other memey/propaganda-stuff. That's half the issue all around, really.

[arista]

Good
London Transport Male Officers can
Now search Tran men/women

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Isn't it amazing, the idea that men would jump on the trans issue to access womens spaces has always been denied and poo poohed and women have been called TERFs for actually raising the issue and here we are the day after the ruling a journalist and a transwoman actually agreeing that this could happen and has happened....... the gaslighting on women on this issue has been horrible .... so its nice to finally have this actually acknowledged

When people say "it doesn't happen" they don't mean it's never happened in the whole of history - how would anyone know to make that claim? What they mean it's not happening with the frequency in which is it being made to look like it is.

People are called TERFS and transphobes when they weaponise a minute occurrence of a CIS MAN cosplaying as a trans woman as an example of a "trans issue" when literally no actual trans person was involved in the situation.

Let's flip things around instead. If a man pretended to be a straight woman and went into a gay club and attacked a trans person, and people said it was a "woman issue" it would justifiably be called sexist. Imagine then that straight women were no longer allowed in gay clubs because trans people were at risk from... erm... *checks notes* men.

[arista]

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Most rape cases get nothing at all

True enough.

But even when there is a guilty verdict, the rapist might only get 4 years in Prison.

Which in my view is a disgrace.

[arista]

A year back or so

[caprimint]

Finally. Thank ****ing god they're not pandering to this **** anymore

[arista]

David Tennant
actor needs to say sorry to the Conservative leader.

He got it very wrong.

Pointed out Live on GMBHD itv
with the great newspaper panel,
Ian Dale (LBC) and Caroline Flint (Former Labour Minister)

[Livia]

Police have visited people citing "hate speech" for saying online that a man cannot change sex and become a woman, something that is scientifically true. Now I hope the terms cisgendered, cis woman and TERF are treated in the same way. I am not a cis woman, I am a woman. I hope transwomen are very happy in the lives they have chosen, I bear them no ill-will, but they are not the same as me. And instead of demanding access to women only spaces, maybe they can campaign to have their own sports, refuges and support groups, just like women did.

This ruling appears to be far more impactful on transwomen than on transmen because they're making a lot of noise about it. But then it's always transwomen making the noise and the threats, never transmen. It was a transwoman who called for people to "punch a TERF in the face". Even coming up with the term TERF in the first place is quite the provocation, while being quite radical themselves. I mean, threats of rape, violence and bombing, pouring all kinds of liquid on women they disagree with... I've never heard of a feminist doing this stuff to transwomen. I've never heard of transmen doing it either, who seem to just want to get on with their chosen lives. Why have we not heard from transmen? Why are transmen not demanding access to men-only spaces and to men's sports and changing rooms? Is it because transwomen are biologically men and have grown up expecting to be listened to in a way women haven't?

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by BBXX

When people say "it doesn't happen" they don't mean it's never happened in the whole of history - how would anyone know to make that claim? What they mean it's not happening with the frequency in which is it being made to look like it is.

People are called TERFS and transphobes when they weaponise a minute occurrence of a CIS MAN cosplaying as a trans woman as an example of a "trans issue" when literally no actual trans person was involved in the situation.

Let's flip things around instead. If a man pretended to be a straight woman and went into a gay club and attacked a trans person, and people said it was a "woman issue" it would justifiably be called sexist. Imagine then that straight women were no longer allowed in gay clubs because trans people were at risk from... erm... *checks notes* men.

Your first point, one instance is one too many, it doesn't matter how many instances if you are the person it has happened to it has happened to you, nobody should turn around and say to that person, oh it doesn't matter it only happened to you so there is no issue here

As to your second point we were called TERFs and BIGOTS for daring to say that MEN would take advantage of self ID to access womans spaces at no point did I see anyone say transwomen would take advantage, of course people knew that but they just liked the idea they could throw around slurs with impunity

I dont get what you are saying with your third point sorry, imagine saying straight women were not allowed in gay clubs because?? of what

The issue here is MEN.....it has always been MEN....not transwomen, not transmen...but MEN

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Cherie

As to your second point we were called TERFs and BIGOTS for daring to say that MEN would take advantage of self ID to access womans spaces at no point did I see anyone say transwomen would take advantage, of course people knew that but they just liked the idea they could throw around slurs with impunity

I dont get what you are saying with your third point sorry, imagine saying straight women were not allowed in gay clubs because?? of what

The issue here is MEN.....it has always been MEN....not transwomen, not transmen...but MEN

I completely agree the issue is men, so why are trans women the ones being forced to take the flack for something MEN are doing? That's been my disagreement with the rhetoric the whole time - we know it's men, we all agree it's men, but it's trans women who are being held responsible for those actions. People are called transphobes when they conflate the actions of men with the "trans issue". They're not trans, so why are trans women even being bought into the conversation.

My third point was playing on that logic - a man is the perpetrator, is using a pretending to be a woman to attack cis women and yet it's trans women who are being forced to take responsibility through removal of freedoms because of something men are doing. All I did in my example was swap the roles of trans and cis women around to highlight how ridiculous and unfair it is on the persons identity that's being hijacked.

The reason people refer to some of the conversations around this as transphobic is because trans women are being used as scapegoats ... some people use these situations to damage the reputation of trans people and refer to it as a "trans issue" when it's not.

It's great you agree it's nothing to do with trans people, but many don't see it that way. Many people see a cis man pretending to be a woman in the same way they see actual trans women and so for them, both of them are under that same umbrella. What we can't agree on, and that's fine, is that the remedy is to stop trans women being able to use the spaces that align with their identity.

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by BBXX

I completely agree the issue is men, so why are trans women the ones being forced to take the flack for something MEN are doing? That's been my disagreement with the rhetoric the whole time - we know it's men, we all agree it's men, but it's trans women who are being held responsible for those actions. People are called transphobes when they conflate the actions of men with the "trans issue". They're not trans, so why are trans women even being bought into the conversation.

My third point was playing on that logic - a man is the perpetrator, is using a pretending to be a woman to attack cis women and yet it's trans women who are being forced to take responsibility through removal of freedoms because of something men are doing. All I did in my example was swap the roles of trans and cis women around to highlight how ridiculous and unfair it is on the persons identity that's being hijacked.

The reason people refer to some of the conversations around this as transphobic is because trans women are being used as scapegoats ... some people use these situations to damage the reputation of trans people and refer to it as a "trans issue" when it's not.

It's great you agree it's nothing to do with trans people, but many don't see it that way. Many people see a cis man pretending to be a woman in the same way they see actual trans women and so for them, both of them are under that same umbrella. What we can't agree on, and that's fine, is that the remedy is to stop trans women being able to use the spaces that align with their identity.